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  • Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

  • Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.
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Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.

Moderator: Franklin Gowen

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Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #571881  by jfrey40535
 
Glenn,

As with Bethlehem, Newtown has not been abandonded, but "Railbanked". The rails are being lifted near the old Walnut Hill station. I don't know if that includes waysides as well.

I don't know when its supposed to happen, but SEPTA is using the same contractor that is doing Coopersburg.

Re:

 #571892  by amtrakhogger
 
limejuice wrote:
TheOneCalledA1 wrote:http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1611.jpg
http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1612.jpg
http://www.fgmgaming.com/septa/05-07-07_1613.jpg

This is what Budd mentioned about the stuff at AYRES, or what is left of it as of last May...
That's a splice box, or "LA" box. The glass things are lightning arrestors, which are designed to ground a lightning strike instead of melting a whole bunch of $800 relays. At this particular location, the aerial line wires are terminated into a cable, which takes these circuits under the Neshaminy line. These circuits appear to be the ABS line circuits for the Newtown Branch. ABS on the Newtown Branch, as far as I can tell, only went as far as Fetters Mill Road. From there north, it was all manual block or TT&TO. You can see the old double-masts in many places. In older pictures you see them carrying upper quadrant semaphores. I don't believe that these were ever part of an automatic system, though. I believe they were operated by the local agent as part of a manual block system. Now there were signals on the branch up until the end of service. They were the DS, or distant switch position indicator signals. There was a pair within Newtown boro protecting the switch into Agway, but they're long gone. There was also a pair protecting 3 sidings and the passing track in Southampton. The northbound still stands south of County Line Rd. while the southbound I'm unsure of. If it's still there, I imagine it's somewhere north of Street Rd, but even in the winter, the brush is unnavigable up there.
I remember a target signal in Newtown (near the old Agway) governing southbound movements, based on your comment
I take it that particular signal was a trainorder signal? Based on past readings I always thought that the whole Newtown
Branch was signalled with an ABS or APB type system with trainorders.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #572066  by RDGTRANSMUSEUM
 
Rick, Just the Bethlehem Branch. No plans for the other line yet,but scrap is rising fast, so makes it well worth pulling any rail not used. The (rail on)bridges and road crossings will be left intact for now. Think I heard a figure of 100K for two miles? Not shure of that figure..... Bob

Re: automatic block between Bryn Athyn and Newtown

 #575895  by dave-a
 
limejuice wrote:These circuits appear to be the ABS line circuits for the Newtown Branch. ABS on the Newtown Branch, as far as I can tell, only went as far as Fetters Mill Road. From there north, it was all manual block or TT&TO.
limejuice wrote:In other news, The 1963 Philadelphia Div. TT and the 1967 Special Instructions would seem to prove me wrong about there not being ABS north of Bryn Athyn. They also show the Stony Creek branch as ABS territory. So I guess the company did a proper job of scrapping/recycling the system north of Bryn Athyn, because there's practically noting left of it... I would really love to find any information about the system if it exists.
I'd love to know too. It would be stunning to me if no ABS was ever installed between Bryn Athyn and Newtown. The automatic block system did end at the Bryn Athyn station way back in 1921 (with two manual blocks beyond controlled by operators at Bryn Athyn, Churchville, and Newtown), at the time of the great Bryn Athyn/Woodmont wreck of 12/5/1921. The ICC report of that accident "recommended... that the carrier be required to install on this line a complete automatic train-control system." I would have thought that at least automatic block signals would have been in place sometime in the next 62 years, before operations ceased. I've been looking for evidence that automatic block signals were installed, and maybe this is why I haven't found it (if it never happened). Can anyone confirm this further?

Re:

 #575908  by westernfalls
 
on 3/29/2008 westernfalls wrote: Into the early 1970's, the Newtown Branch was equipped with automatic block signals all the way to Newtown.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576013  by dave-a
 
Thanks. I just don't understand the apparently conflicting information, such as the "newtownTrackChart.gif" drawing that jfrey40535 linked us to above, dated "'76," that bears the legend "Fox Chase to Bryn Athyn A.B.S. Rules 505-515; Bryn Athyn to Newtown: timetable and train orders."
limejuice wrote:The 1963 Philadelphia Div. TT and the 1967 Special Instructions would seem to prove me wrong about there not being ABS north of Bryn Athyn.
--Are these documents available for viewing? Can someone explain the "1967 Special Instructions?"

What you're telling me is the ABS was installed at about the time Reading Co. filed bankruptcy (1971) and only about 12 years before service ceased on that track.

Sorry for the confusion. I'd just like to understand what was done here, and I appreciate your efforts to clarify!

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576236  by westernfalls
 
There is no confusion. The automatic block signals were likely extended from Bryn Athyn to Newtown shortly after the ICC suggested a train control system. Early Reading Co. employe timetables weren't very explicit about such things, but by 1946 the ABS was stated in the timetable. In 1967 the system was still in place. Some time between 1971 and 1974 the signal system was cut back to Bryn Athyn. And that was the situation too in 1976.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576281  by dave-a
 
The confusion is all mine, and sorry for it.

I've looked for documentary evidence of what was done, and when, and have not found it, other than what you've shared, and thanks for it. I don't understand why a working system would be "cut back" while trains were running on that line. Are there examples of employee timetables posted anywhere? Is there an offline repository of these kinds of documents?

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576382  by jfrey40535
 
I don't understand why a working system would be "cut back" while trains were running on that line.
Probablly because by the late 60's and early 70's the Newtown line was in such decline (along with the rest of the Reading System) that it wasn't possible to maintain it. By that time, there was limited freight on the line, probablly 1 or 2 trains a day, along with the limited passenger service. Freight service existed until SEPTA took over in 1981.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576677  by limejuice
 
jfrey40535 wrote:Might this be a old phone box? This is at CP Bridge on the Elm St portion of SEPTA's Noristown line. These boxes are all over the line between here and East Falls.
Image
Yep, thats a phone box. There might even be a phone in it, along with a few dozen angry yellow jackets. The phones were still in use here, and throughout the ex-RDG side, until about 10 or 15 years ago. This box likely had a connection to the operator at Norris, who controlled Kalb/Bridge/Elm/Ford until the operation was moved next to the Wayne operator before everything went up to the 19th floor.

Re: Re:

 #576683  by limejuice
 
amtrakhogger wrote:I remember a target signal in Newtown (near the old Agway) governing southbound movements, based on your comment I take it that particular signal was a trainorder signal? Based on past readings I always thought that the whole Newtown Branch was signalled with an ABS or APB type system with trainorders.
I know that in the late 70's, there was a DS signal at the Agway, along with its complementary northbound, that was north of State St. These DS signals only indicated switch positions, not block conditions.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576690  by jfrey40535
 
limejuice wrote:
jfrey40535 wrote:Might this be a old phone box? This is at CP Bridge on the Elm St portion of SEPTA's Noristown line. These boxes are all over the line between here and East Falls.
Image
Yep, thats a phone box. There might even be a phone in it, along with a few dozen angry yellow jackets. The phones were still in use here, and throughout the ex-RDG side, until about 10 or 15 years ago. This box likely had a connection to the operator at Norris, who controlled Kalb/Bridge/Elm/Ford until the operation was moved next to the Wayne operator before everything went up to the 19th floor.
Didn't they have radios 10 years ago? Any plans to remove them, or did they just forget, or are they there just in case?

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576692  by limejuice
 
dave-a wrote:The confusion is all mine, and sorry for it.

I've looked for documentary evidence of what was done, and when, and have not found it, other than what you've shared, and thanks for it. I don't understand why a working system would be "cut back" while trains were running on that line. Are there examples of employee timetables posted anywhere? Is there an offline repository of these kinds of documents?
My theory is that the system they installed from Bryn Athyn to Newtown was more or less bare-bones, and thrown together with spare parts utilizing the existing manual block masts, and spare open line wire circuits - to satisfy the ICC. So by the 1970's, it was probably shot, and far easier to scrap than to fix.

Re: Trainline/Telegraph on the Reading

 #576693  by limejuice
 
jfrey40535 wrote:
limejuice wrote:
jfrey40535 wrote:Might this be a old phone box? This is at CP Bridge on the Elm St portion of SEPTA's Noristown line. These boxes are all over the line between here and East Falls.
Image
Yep, thats a phone box. There might even be a phone in it, along with a few dozen angry yellow jackets. The phones were still in use here, and throughout the ex-RDG side, until about 10 or 15 years ago. This box likely had a connection to the operator at Norris, who controlled Kalb/Bridge/Elm/Ford until the operation was moved next to the Wayne operator before everything went up to the 19th floor.
Didn't they have radios 10 years ago? Any plans to remove them, or did they just forget, or are they there just in case?
The radios weren't very reliable until recently. And yes, they've forgotten about them.
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