Train horns on fire trucks? Your thoughts?

Over at the Firehouse.com discussion forums there is a topic regarding a certain piece of fire apparatus that among other things includes what appears to be a train-style air horn cluster. As you might see from my post on that forum (if you get that far), I am not personally supportive of mixing up our equipment and systems. A train should sound like a train and a fire truck like a fire truck. The last thing either group needs is more confusion from drivers.

I am interested in the thoughts that rail workers have on this topic in agreement or dissent. I will link the topic over there back to here so that readers over there can discover the railworker's perspective on this. Thanks in advance for your input.

Link to topic: "WOW!! What a Rig!!"
http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=78856

Just because it has 5 different horns does not make it a train horn.
I doubt a Fire rig has a compressor for 140 Lbs air and at sufficient quantities.

Sure looks like the "real deal" to me, similar to ones on older Amtrak stuff, as well as Southern stuff. Kinda looks nice, with the chromed finish.

Saw a Nathan P-5 five chime on a FDNY rig at a W 181st fire house, about 1988 or so. It was a real one, and it sure was weird hearing the sound of an F-40 in Washington Heights!!!

A loco horn is about twice the size of the one on that fire truck.

That's a Nathan P5 locomotive horn if I ever saw one--and I've seen quite a few. Here's another photo of one.

http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/p5_1.jpg

I wouldn't support the idea of train horns used on a truck, except that the Nathan P-series has a more truck-ish sound than other train horns and is becoming rarer on trains anyway. In fact, the P-series, when originally introduced, was a modified version of a truck horn and was only intended to be a temporary model until the K series was completed.

... Well, if there's any doubt about whether or not that was a train horn in the first image, the third page of that forum showed a firetruck with a Nathan K5LA. Most people there said it was not a good feature, and I'm inclined to agree. The K5LA won't be mistaken for anything other than a train horn.

http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread. ... ge=3&pp=20

Well, the whole point of having a "doppler" (loud horn on emergency equipment like fire trucks and ambulances) is to get people's attention and let them know that an emergency vehicle is approaching and to move out of the way.

In this day and age of people yaking on cell phones while driving, listening to their pimped out systems, and all the other distractions that are in modern vehicles, not to mention improved insulation and noise reduction (all in the name of comfort)... anything extra to get people's attention is a good thing. Not much out there that's louder than a locomotive air horn.

Having had both a younger brother and father who served on the local volunteer ambulance crew, and hearing about people who didn't pull out of the way of the rig until the ambulance was almost on their rear bumper, I say more power to 'em. Whatever helps get the job done.

Just my 20 yen.

DutchRailnut wrote:Just because it has 5 different horns does not make it a train horn.
I doubt a Fire rig has a compressor for 140 Lbs air and at sufficient quantities.

Most US fire equipment uses the same air brake components as Class 8 commercial trucks. the air compressor cut-out is usually over 120 lbs. and the govenor can be taken up to 150 quite easily. There may be additional storage tanks compared to a standard air brake system as some emergency equipment may be air over hydraulic and the designer would have to plan for the air used by the horn...

One major advantage, to me, of an air horn over an electronic device is you get a much better sense of location from it. Electronic sirens and such you can hear them, but you can't tell where they are. A lot of the NYC police and fire rigs have a device that sounds about like a foghorn. Ugly, but effective!

steemtrayn wrote:A loco horn is about twice the size of the one on that fire truck.

I don't know what railroad(s) you have worked for, but a locomotive horn most certainly is not twice that size. That Nathan styled horn, is available with very compact trumpets, if needed. It is very certainly, an Amtrak styled horn, with the "high" configuration being represented by the stacked design, versus a "low" rack, with all horns being mounted on a single plane. I will say this again, that thing sure looks sweet, with that chromed finish!!! If it didn't cost so &*#@$ much, I might polish, and chrome, a few of my own personal sets............

Interesting topic.......

I've been a volunteer firefighter for the last 19 years and and apparatus driver for 17 of those years. Unfortunately there is no one device that is the ultimate in clearing traffic. Even if there were I wonder just how effective they'd be. Between audio/video systems, GPS units, and cellphones the average driver just has too much to play with while he's driving.

However I would love to put a set of Nathan's on one of our pumpers just to see what driver reaction would be! And, as posted above, I do believe most fire apparatus could handle the airload.

The most effective traffic-clearing device, IMHO, is the Federal 'Q' siren. Those here who are apparatus buffs know the siren I'm referring to. It is a coaster-style siren that stays activated as long as its foot pedal is depressed. Its scream can be heard over just about anything!

Maybe railroads should start putting 'Q's on their locomotives.........

Slightly "off topic", in 1998, I was working in Houston, Tx., and I had occasion to crawl underneath an ambulance, in Harris county, to find out what kind of horn, this thing had. It was extremely loud, and the sound it produced carried for a half mile, easily. The single trumpet horn was marked "Buell", and no other markings were visible. I would put one on my car today, for it's traffic clearing/stopping ability. That was one sweet, loud horn!!!!

A locomotive should sound like a locomotive. A fire truck should sound like a fire truck. Enough said.

As far as driver distraction is concerned, and the accidents that it inevitably causes... isn't the guy driving the fire truck going to be a bit distracted if he's got one foot on a siren pedal, one foot on the gas, one hand on the horn valve, one hand holding the radio mic... how's he even gonna drive the damn thing? Yeah, yeah, I know there's usually somebody else in the cab... but still... setups like that are ridiculous.

MEC407 wrote:

A locomotive should sound like a locomotive. A fire truck should sound like a fire truck. Enough said.

Very true.....though it is fun to imagine what could be.

isn't the guy driving the fire truck going to be a bit distracted if he's got one foot on a siren pedal, one foot on the gas, one hand on the horn valve, one hand holding the radio mic... how's he even gonna drive the damn thing? Yeah, yeah, I know there's usually somebody else in the cab... but still... setups like that are ridiculous.

Yep.....you got that right. Paid depts. have the luxury of a driver and an officer up front. The officer will do everything except drive the truck. In my volunteer dept. it's about a 50/50 chance I'll have someone in that officers seat, especially on a daytime call. When I'm alone in the driver seat I turn the electronic siren on and leave it on, both hands on the wheel, and only use the radio if I absolutely have to. Because I'm a PD/FD/EMS dispatcher with 16 years behind the mic I know what I can and can't ignore on the radio. If we had a big dept. budget we'd get the headset radios that many paid and volunteer depts use. We're just a small town so those are a definite luxury. Getting the truck, and the crew, to the scene safely is the most important objective.

Not to run this thread off-topic......let's get back to the trains.