Train Consist Length

I picked up a copy of the new General Order for the 12/5/22 schedule changes. Interesting to note that there are no 12 car consists listed for any rush hour train on any branch.

This would allow more flexibility with train operations and manipulation of equipment. For example a 12 car train from Ronkonkoma to Grand Central can't spin to go to Far Rockaway. 12 cars wont fit there. With 10 cars seemingly the new normal, I wonder how that will affect on time performance and loading of trains. I guess time will tell....


There is a typo listing train 1501 (the old East Williston MU train) as having 12 cars. But, that train doesn't exist in the new schedules. The proposed train 511 in the Grand Central draft schedules from East Williston to Grand Central has been replaced with train 2601 making Mineola the first passenger stop (10 car train).

So lets see...

-Shorter trains
-less trains to Penn
-everything stops @Jamaica
-no scheduled connections

How is this a win for anyone?

Yeah, I don't understand the part about no scheduled connections or why they would set it up that way. I always assumed that you could transfer at Jamaica across the platform from/to a Penn or Grand Central train. I further thought that was why the Brooklyn service was moved to the new platform; because the former "Brooklyn" tracks (3 and 6) would now be used for either Penn or Grand Central trains. WTF?

Maybe LIRR has realized they'll never fill a 12 car train again, so why shouldn't they look for a way to expand the options for equipment rotations?

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Much thought went into this. Most of these comments are correct. Ridership is way down. There's the realization that equipment manipulation will be a nightmare and there's much to be learned. There is also a real possibility of diversions.

If connections are not held, on time performance benchmarks will improve. All performance emphasis is put on individual train performance. There is no public analysis of "passenger hour delays". So why hold connections if performance benchmarks do not reward this practice?

It's also acknowledged that there will be a huge learning curve that must be met. Even a large number of crew members are less experienced. There exists a large equipment and manpower shortage.

While the new operating plans may cost significant numbers of riders a few minutes' additional travel time, it is felt that reliability will be improved and effects from initial delays will be mitigated. This should result in a better-run and more reliable system.

There's also the management story behind the scenes. With no traditional railroaders in policy-making positions and a State oversight that is rapid-transit oriented, what do you expect?

We'll see...

"While the new operating plans may cost significant numbers of riders a few minutes' additional travel time, it is felt that reliability will be improved and effects from initial delays will be mitigated. This should result in a better-run and more reliable system. "

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:35 pm Maybe LIRR has realized they'll never fill a 12 car train again, so why shouldn't they look for a way to expand the options for equipment rotations?

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Apparently no one has seen the 12 car 608am out of KO lately... or the 423 Penn to KO train....

There's a few that will pack a 12 car consist, and wait until we can be free of this damn virus... The Mainline especially. Going to be an interesting Winter!

Possible speculation. 12 cars were planned as the final number. That may have then dictated the various DC substation capacities ? using 14 car trains which is the practical limit of most NYP station platforms. longer trainswould require completely upgrading every substation that would have that length train. As well station platform lengths. Have missed the platform lengths at NYG?

Everyone - I agree with the thought that the new schedules going into effect in December
is going to be a learning curve for the LIRR…There are inevitably going to be adjustments
as service and ridership patterns change over the course of 2023 that will include consists.

There are trains that are going to need 12 cars to accommodate riders - the hard way will
be trains that have large numbers of standees after being reduced to 10 cars…

WP: There are only a few stations on the LIRR that can platform 14 cars such as Bellmore
on the Babylon Branch…The LIRR consist limit has been 12 cars since the 1970s I believe.
12 car train lengths in virtually all cases is adequate to handle LIRR passenger ridership.
14 car trains would require added platform extensions at 12 car stations - and as Gamer
mentions those MU consists would be too long for certain branches altogether. Running
trains that place cars off the platform at repeated stations would lengthen schedules and
subject riders to have to avoid and/or walk through cars to exit and to find seats boarding.
In closing 14 car LIRR trains would not be worth the added cost and hassle for riders…

MACTRAXX

I have to wonder if energy price increases might also be behind reducing consist sizes. Even government has a budget.

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MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:11 am In closing 14 car LIRR trains would not be worth the added cost and hassle for riders…
MACTRAXX

I fully agree not even in probably 30 years. Now in the long term traffic paterns cannot really be predicted. During Steam and early years many trains probably had less. Some history person will need to tell us if cars were at one time shorter allowing for mor cars but same length as present.

Some big "IFS" in the distant future. Penn south is built with connections to an "IF" East River tunnels 5 and 6 are built. If some routes require longer express trains then maybe a few platforms and storage yards would get exteded. But that would be year 2060 long after most of us are dead. As far as NYG what is their platform length.?

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:29 am I have to wonder if energy price increases might also be behind reducing consist sizes. Even government has a budget.

I believe its more about being able to build up the amount of trains needed in the new schedules combined with the added flexibility of manipulating equipment to various branches.

There are many places where a 12 car train wont fit.

10 car trains can fit virtually everywhere. The main exceptions would be West Hempstead, and most of Brooklyn (All VD Yard tracks are 8 car capacity).


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eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:29 am I have to wonder if energy price increases might also be behind reducing consist sizes. Even government has a budget.

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The LIRR generally does not pay for electricity. They are billed but have not paid in two decades.

I know NYCT has the electric traction supplied by commercial utility carriers, since the old generating plants
closed. I recall NYCT paying an agreed rate per year. How was LIRR billed, by a standard tariff rate?