Track plan for Sayre yard in HO scale.

I noticed a post over on one of the dead yahoo forums:

by David Hammon.
I was looking to build a diorama of the Sayre, PA shops and yards as they were in 1972. If anyone could point me to drawings, plans. etc.
of this, I would appreciate it.

I emailed David and asked him what size he had in mind..He said a 4X12 foot "L" for a HO scale diorama..(or a "point to point" model railroad)

Here is the blank template..
please feel free to use this if you want to design your own trackplan!!
the more the merrier..



Im moving the discussion over here, because the Yahoo forums are dead..
David's post has been there 2 weeks now with zero replies..
I sent him a note letting him know we will talk about it over here..

so lets make a trackplan for the Sayre yard!!

the main problem with ANY and all model railroads is..
how to squeeze all the prototype detail you want into the space you have available for your model railroad...
This project is no exception..

the Real Sayre yard, from the Packer Ave bridge to the DL&W are Erie crossings near Waverly, if built to scale in HO scale, would have to be
136 feet long...you would need your own indoor soccer stadium to build it to scale!



but no model railroad is built to TRUE scale anyway..its virtually impossible..so we just have to ignore that issue alltogether..


The next problem is the Big Shops..
clearly the largest building in the yard..(and the largest building in the world in 1904!)
again, if built to true HO scale it would be 4X8 feet!!



the model railroad in the Sayre station back in 80's had a model of the big shops..it was probably about 1/4 size..maybe 2X3 feet..it looked ok, but IMO didnt capture the real essense of the massive building..
IMO, the only way to model the Big Shops is to put it on the backdrop..
(other ideas welcome!)
a nice big REAL photo of the shops could look very cool as a backdrop!

The Station area, with the Packer ave bridge on one side of the station, and the Walkbridge on the other, *can* be built nearly to scale!
So that should probably be the focus of the layout..Imagine a scale model of the walkbridge 4 feet long!

(walkbridge info: http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... alkbridge/

so..here is how I would attempt to model all this in HO scale..
I have a drawing of the Sayre station a home..I will get the real dimensions and post it tomorrow..I just guessed at the station footprint on this drawing..



there is a decent trackplan of the yard in the "Archer book"..
but an accurate trackplan of the yard is essentially useless anyway..
because it simply cant be built to scale..
the actual layout of the tracks in the station/engine terminal area can easily be worked out from photos..
(I made no effort to make accurate trackage in my drawing..its just a rough concept sketch..)

thoughts?
ideas?
please draw up your own ideas for this layout if you want!

thanks,
Scot

Ok, here is a very bizzare idea..but it might work!

take the Big shops..
build one corner of it to scale..
25% of it.
2X4 feet.



click here for full-size photo:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7291 ... oto4gq.jpg

then place the 25% structure in the corner, with mirrors against both walls..
the mirrors fill in the remaining 75% of the building and you have the FULL big shops building TO SCALE!!



ok, maybe its not all that practical.....(and the big shops wouldnt quite be in the correct position in the yard this way..might look too weird..)
putting a photo of the shops on the backdrop would probably work better.
but I just wanted to throw the idea out there..

Scot

Wow... Would love to see someone complete this!

We're making a modern day version of it. You still have that waverly plan scot? But ours will not have any structures except the station. I'm trying to convince my friend John to make sayre. I'll send him a link to this thread.

I'm not into getting into the nitty gritty with this project. Knowing that an exact representation is out of the question because of size restraints, I'm willing to "bend the rules" so to speak. I begin construction on the base this week end. It will be 1"x4" framework, with plywood top. It will be contructed with 4'x4' modules attached together in some way or another...

ANDY117 wrote:We're making a modern day version of it. You still have that waverly plan scot? But ours will not have any structures except the station. I'm trying to convince my friend John to make sayre. I'll send him a link to this thread.

Andy,
yep, I still have that Waverly trackplan..
here it is:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychao ... ckplan.gif

Scot

The problem with modeling the shops is that they take so much space but have little operational use for most model railroads. I plan on having Sayre as one end of my model (Sayre to Rochester Junction), but I don't want to dwell on the shops. I was thinking about putting them as more of a fascia in the background. I wanted to concentrate on the yard itself as well as the stations (freight and passenger) and the ped. bridge. Also I wanted to keep the length below 15 ft. Now finding a spot for the old roundhouse will be fun!

Scott and guys,

I think your main problem in doing the Sayre yard is in picking HO scale. When you want to approximate large areas and particularly large structures, N sacle is a better choice IMHO. Z scale might be even better, but the amount of LV equipment available in N rules in it's favor.

Do you realize the complete LV roster of FT locos is available from IM? I don't recall ever seeing a complete roster for sale.

Anyway, it would be very interesting to see what a plan in N scale might look like.

That's been one of my big problems. I've been trying to reduce Sayre into about 15 ft of wall space in HO. Not an easy trick. I figure that I can incorporate the the shops into the background. Problem is finding a spot for the roundhouse (1949-1950 era). I think what I may end up doing is just selective modeling, including what I want. I plan on building both the passenger and freight building, plus the ped. bridge. Since I'm only giving myself at the most 2 ft of width, I'll probably relocate the roundhouse to the north end of the yard, where my mainline has to take a 90 degree turn to keep from crashing into a cinderblock wall. I guess when you try to model the LV from Sayre to Rochester (both mainline and Ithaca branch) in an L shaped room about 15' x 18', you model what you can.

I have been playing with the modern LV idea I mentioned above. However I have the John Wilkes set that I got as an engagement gift from my wife 10 years ago that I want to use. I'll have to use a little creative license to move it forward 10 years and to a different part of the line. Also I have some other motive power from that era that I don't want to part with, including a turntable.

BTW, was there ever any local passenger service on the freight main between Van-Ettan and Geneva? Specifically in the era I'm modelling. I know there was a lot during WWII serving Sampson. How about post WWII?

As far as the "complete roster" goes, I am well over the 200 loco mark now, on my way to the LV all time diesel roster of 324 units. That's what paint and decals are for. Whenever I get some time, and can figure out how to do something other than this, and eBay on a computer, I will start posting the HO LV roster on the LVRR modelers pages. Perhaps even some will be picked up, by the ARHS, although I am not sure if they have any interest in modeling projects. I might not ever have a layout, but I do have everything to decently replicate the Easton, or Bethlehem roundhouse, and surrounding facilities. (Easton probably will be attempted, as it's "pure" LV) A good place to showcase locos, in the stalls, and around the servicing tracks, etc. One day, it COULD be included into a larger layout, if I ever get the time, and place........

Wow. I envy you, a complete roster!!!

I used to do the paint & decal bit, but eyes are to bad and hands too shaky now. I really miss it though.

Not complete yet, but very, very close. I would imagine in "N" scale, or even "Z" would be so small, the numbers would be almost invisible. Not too hard to change a digit, or two. While it's fun, to model the Roster, it would be better, to have a decent place to run them at. Maybe someday.........

Wow, having been born and still having family in Sayre I'd love to see someone model the Sayre Yard complex. N or Z would be the preferred scales. There is plenty of LV in N-scale. In Z-scale the only items I'm aware of are the Micro-Trains F-7 and caboose.

It would make for a heck of a layout in any scale, that's for sure!

Fellas-

Kinda dig the LV so I checked this thread. Then stumbled upon something that might interest you....

http://www.nyow.org/Sayre1.JPG


I don't know how to insert an image into this forum, but trust me, I think you'll like the photo, and I would assume Scotty can insert it.

I guess I do know how to insert an image!

Way to go, Me!