Proposed Rail Extension To King of Prussia, PA

rdgrailfan wrote:could be funny if the closing of the bridge to Norristown gave life to the project. I wonder if a white paper exits within SEPTA that outlines the advantage of abandoning the Norristown end in favor of a KOP connection, Just a thought

Nope. But there is a plan for service from Norristown to KOP along with service from 69th Street to KOP.

Then again it would be ironic if the original route was supplanted by a branch for the second time in the line's history.

askclifford wrote:All of this conflicts with the construction of the Chester Valley Trail segment from Warner Rd to Norristown via ex RDG CVT ROW and the Turnpike which is fully funded, recently received assurance from the TPC that they can have the turnpike siding, and construction is anticipated to begin this fall.

SEPTA has full rights to most of the reading abandoned rights of way, not sure bout this one. The ones they don't have rights to either belong to freight or local government, and could be re-instated without much paperwork aside from EIS.

I would love if there was an actual map of this right of way i could look at.

25Hz wrote:I would love if there was an actual map of this right of way i could look at.

Here is a link to the map of possible routes for the rail extension. It's pretty early on in the planning so the routes are all very different.

http://www.kingofprussiarail.com/image/ ... test1.html

"I hope that they will learn the lessons from Hunt Valley so transit becomes a plus for KOP, not a negative."

What are the lessons?

I think KOP mall is a different animal than Hunt Valley ever was even during the latter's so-called "hey-day". King of Prussia remains a major retail destination for those in the Mid-Atlantic region and beyond. Hunt Valley's problems OTOH stemmed from being majorly overshadowed by the nearby Owings Mills and White Marsh Malls which both had better clientele and imaging. Perhaps having the light rail extension from Timonium arrive when it did back in 1997 staved off some of the wounds that were made against Hunt Valley, but it was already on its own downward trend.

Deadmalls.com has some testimony from 2003 or so saying there was only one original mall entrance in use at the time, but by then, it seems like everything had pretty much gone silent. That's not to say places like Wal-Mart or the big box stores strewn around the area aren't doing well at this time, but frankly, the place is somewhat of a mess. FWIW, at least the Wegman's in Hunt Valley is somewhat close to the light rail station. I don't know how close they're thinking of getting to the Wegman's in KOP for that rail extension if any...

I've seen the alternatives, but the Mall owners have been pretty clear that they don't want this thing on their property. So if its not going direct to the Mall like the bus does now (one seat ride), why would anyone switch from the 99/123/24/25? What's the compelling argument for this project again?

bikentransit wrote:I've seen the alternatives, but the Mall owners have been pretty clear that they don't want this thing on their property. So if its not going direct to the Mall like the bus does now (one seat ride), why would anyone switch from the 99/123/24/25?

Given the new surcharge for the 123, there may be a draw of customers who would normally take the bus from Norristown to KOP.

What's the compelling argument for this project again?

That KOP and Upper Merion are highly underserved areas in SEPTA's region?

bikentransit wrote:I've seen the alternatives, but the Mall owners have been pretty clear that they don't want this thing on their property.

Huh? Where have they ever said that? Nearly all the plans include a station in between the two malls. The exceptions are there because there's been some recent development in other nearby areas, and it's due diligence to assess their potential ridership.

What's the compelling argument for this project again?

Several thousand people riding those buses to jobs at the mall and nearby.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

bikentransit wrote:I've seen the alternatives, but the Mall owners have been pretty clear that they don't want this thing on their property.

Huh? Where have they ever said that? Nearly all the plans include a station in between the two malls. The exceptions are there because there's been some recent development in other nearby areas, and it's due diligence to assess their potential ridership.

I've been following this somewhat closely as well, and cannot remember ever reading that the mall owners disliked the plans? Bike, where did you get your opinion otherwise?
My personal opinion is this project is a full decade overdue. The immediate area is already built out, and traffic is only going to get worse in the near-term.

ChrisinAbington wrote:My personal opinion is this project is a full decade overdue.

In DVARP's opinion, two decades. We said in 1992 it should be the highest priority regional rail expansion project

Well I'm pretty sure "between the two malls" isnt going to work, as they are going to build an expanded segment linking the two halves.

Interestingly enough, KOP all ready has the most leasable space, it will soon have the most sq ft total. And unlike the other malls its all concourse and retail, no 3 ring circus theme park adding space.

http://investors.simon.com/phoenix.zhtm ... highlight=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dead malls.com is great, I've spent hours on there!

25Hz wrote:Well I'm pretty sure "between the two malls" isnt going to work, as they are going to build an expanded segment linking the two halves.

Interestingly enough, KOP all ready has the most leasable space, it will soon have the most sq ft total. And unlike the other malls its all concourse and retail, no 3 ring circus theme park adding space.

http://investors.simon.com/phoenix.zhtm ... highlight=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dead malls.com is great, I've spent hours on there!

Actually, the Mall of America also has an expansion planned. MoA is currently the largest mall in the country, but as 25 points out, much of that space is an amusement park in the middle of the mall (not to mention a aquarium, bowling ally, movie theater and other non-retail areas). The expansion is quite large, but again includes a lot of non-retail space (a water park & hotel are just part of it), so it will most likely keep/regain the total sq ft title, but KoP might be able to keep the most retail space.

As for the rail... it would be neat if they could incorporate the rail into the mall expansion and have the station right inside the mall (with the train going 'between the two malls' but with the mall expansion then built around the train station, enclosing it inside the building). But it would be next to impossible to coordinate these two giant projects, and the mall expansion has a much sooner target completion date.

I've always wondered about the viability of extending across the river to Trooper to provide access to the industrial park between Monroe Blvd and Eisenhower Avenue along South Trooper Road. You could also provide an opportunity to divert motorists off of Rt 422 when congeston occurs.

I say they go full-on airport and build an elevated extension and forget the existing rights of way. Might not be the cheapest, but would eliminate conflicts involved with the other options plus you can pick where it goes. *shrug*