Watertown Branch (Guilford)

vanshnookenraggen wrote:Did you even look at the map I put up? It will go to Harvard. Anyway, it is just a pipedream, like most of my web site. I think the main idea behind the line is to catch people coming into Watertown Sq and get them to Harvard and Boston faster. It's not like the A branch is coming back, or at least all the way.

Sorry...my bad. I didn't look at the right map. I see what you're talking about now.

Its an interesting idea, and since there is so much passenger volume from Watertown heading east to Cambridge, its a route that surely would be used. However, as you mentioned, it would be prhibitvely expensive, as it would require tunnelling from Harvard Sq. to where the railroad ROW crosses Mt. Auburn St. From there, you'd only get to near the Watertown Mall (where the ROW parallels Arsenal St.) before the lack of remaining ROW would probably force the line underground again. Given the expense of subway construction, I couldn't see Watertown and West Cambridge ever being on the top of the list for it.*

Now, had the ROW been preserved through to Watertown Sq. (and even the west side of town) we might have enough of a route to really consider some sort of light rail solution -- either one that goes to Alewife, or perhaps somehow into Allston to meet the Green Line. Every time I cross a remenant of it (I live in Watertown) I think of how its just one of the many, many rights of way that were foolishly discarded around the area. Given the density of development here, the value of an intact ROW is truly priceless.

*When I think about it more, if, by some miracle, there ever was the money for subway extensions, it would probably just make more sense to construct a branch of the Red Line along Mt. Auburn St. But, that's really a long shot.

I got this message from this gourp that wants to build bike paths over old ROW's about my walk and photo tour. I think it is interesting that they see it as an opportunity to build a bike path while I see it as a way of trying to capture the ROW before it is destroyed by a bike path. Now thats not to say I don't like bike paths; I actually love them and actually want more. But it is foolish to throw away a great opportunity for transit just for the recreation of a few

Bike paths preserve the ROW for future use. Otherwise they get gradually encroached upon and eventually disappear entirely, as has happened with the Watertown Branch west of Arlington St, and is currently happening with the Saugus Branch in Malden.

Now, I've never heard of a case where a bike path was converted back to rail use, but you don't hear of abandoned ROWs getting un-abandoned much either.

Good point. And I will be checking out the Saugus Branch after Watertown. Anyone else know of some good abandoned ROW? With any track left? I know about the one in Dedham and Newton, and the one through Woburn Center though that has been built upon.

ceo wrote:Bike paths preserve the ROW for future use. Otherwise they get gradually encroached upon and eventually disappear entirely, as has happened with the Watertown Branch west of Arlington St, and is currently happening with the Saugus Branch in Malden.

Now, I've never heard of a case where a bike path was converted back to rail use, but you don't hear of abandoned ROWs getting un-abandoned much either.

Sadly, what these ROW's need is a state that will take ownership of them AND maintain their integrity, by which I mean regularly inspect them and take action against those who encroach upon them.

Bike paths scare me...despite the rhetoric from the bike community that they are "preserving" the ROW, as soon as someone suggests ripping up the Minuteman Bike Path to put a light rail or commuter rail line back in, and isn't laughed out of the room, I might think about changing my mind. Bike paths will always be too popular with the "weekend crowd" to ever allow them to be put back to rail use.

I have no doubt that the Lexington Branch would have some sort of service back on it at this point if the tracks had just been left dormant, rather than being torn up and paved over for the trail. If it were there, it would seem like a good candidate for diesel light rail (i.e., NJT RiverLine, Ottowa O-Train, etc.).

OK - I've seen numerous trucks of flour coming along arlington st, and no trains in about a month. Has Guilford finally achieved their goal of killing the branch?

The last couple times I passed over the branch, it looked like a train hadn't been run in a while. However, I used to drive by Newlywed every morning and it seemed like they received trucks several times a week, even when they were receiving trains.

A week or two ago I was visiting a railroad club and saw a computer screen that had a facsimile message from Guilford dated May 10th. It was an abandonment petition for the remainder of the Watertown Branch. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the URL.

-John

......And here it is;

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

Guilford rules!

So how long will it take before the line is officially abandoned?

Any speculation on what will happen to the branch? Its too bad Guilford can't make that line profitable.

I expect it'll be a bike path within a year of abandonment, assuming any environmental liability issues can be worked out. With a connection through the old Arsenal, it'll enable a bike-path connection from the Minuteman Bikeway to the Charles River paths.

Thanks for pointing me at this document. I've never looked at one of these filings before.

A couple of questions:

These two filings appear to be identical, but have separate case and document numbers. Why?

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

Also, the filing requests abandonment of the branch only as far west as Cottage Street. That leaves the rest of the line orphaned, without any connection to other railroads. Why?

(Hmmm... it seems linking to NErail pics doesn't work well anymore! I was going to link to my Sticky Guilford pics, but someone already has, and they don't work! )

That line is something I find very interesting. And sad, too. I have lived in Belmont my whole (short) life, and I missed all the activity in the area. I'm at work when Guilford works Newlyweds during the week, so that day we got to see them stuck on the line was a momentus one in my railfan life.

Yes, most of the right of way for this and other local lines have been built on or next to, though if you go into the new Watertown Ford lot, you can see the ROW was left intact. Down the road a bit, you can see where the tracks crossed the street, and where there was a yard, who's tracks were intact untill not all that long ago. The driveway that goes past Auto Zone near the Arsenal Mall goes over intact trackage. The other Autozone across from the Waltham police station has tracks as well, but the ROW goes right into the police parking lot! It would take a lot of work to return things to they way they were.

Unfortunately, living in this area, I can tell you no one will ever OK the return of that line. Liberals, politics, no industry, lack of interest... Masschusetts hates manufacturing and blue collar jobs, and this is what would be needed to bring the line back for freight. A commuter rail line would be very nice, but people would have to embrace trains and not cars or buses, and the ROW would be very tight. T trolley line? Interesting, but there isn't much realestate left for stations, etc. And again, very tight ROW.

Oh yeah, and politics, politics, politics...

I am sure that when Guilford finally says "OK, THAT'S IT!", we will loose what is left of another old line to bicycles and roller blades. Something which people love, but brings no income, taxes, or jobs to the towns and states. And we loose history as well.

But of course, this is just my opinion. I don't mean to come across as snippy. I am just used to absolute morons running things in this area. If someone could make a rehab of the line actually work, no matter what form of rail, I'd say GO FOR IT!

Can we somehow change the name of this thread to something more descriptive, like 'Watertown Branch' ? (I don't know how to change a thread title.)

If you started the thread, go to that first post, and click EDIT... I think... then rename. I think... having a senior moment right now... at 28!!