trainbrain wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:35 pmI think the easiest through running opportunity is the New Haven Line trains to Penn Station running through to New Jersey. My idea is to have all of the New Haven Line trains to Penn Station use NJT equipment like the football train.
Agreed. And it avoids the hare-brained idea of extending the PRR third rail to use the M-8s, which are a bespoke and highly complicated solution for Grand Central access from AC electrified territory.
Anything else is far more complicated. Even Amtrak's proposed through trains to Ronkonkoma would need to switch locomotives. Most of LIRR's equipment is 3rd rail M3s, M7s, and M9s, so they can't go into NJT territory at all and NJT has nothing that uses third rail. The only way to do it would be to use an ALP-45DP and stop in the Harold Interlocking to change modes. Basically, you're looking at billions to replace or modify equipment to be compatible on the other agency's network.
Yes and no. They would theoretically work with P32AC-DMs, except that there aren't enough of them and they would be too slow to run on the NEC.
The whole third rail dual mode locomotive idea is stupid. It was a McGinnis creation to run long distance through trains all over the New Haven system, and never should have been used for commuter rail or corridor type services. For third-rail powered commuter rail, the right solution is electrification to Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson, Patchogue, Poughkeepsie, and Danbury/New Milford, and live with a few trains a day running diesel through electric territory to reach White Plains, Stamford, and Long Island City from the outer edges of the system.
What does make sense is an overhead wire dual-mode that unlike the P32, which is a lousy diesel and a barely functioning electric, should be able to be a decent diesel and a decent electric like the ALP-45DP, but with the ability to switch on the fly. While commuter lines are quite finite in their size, and should just be electrified, potential Amtrak routes are seemingly infinite, and while a national electrified freight rail system makes sense in it's own right, you can't electrify every route to every possible place that wants a train or two a day, and there are places where the passenger and freight routes diverge. In the Northeast, there are also routes where commuter/regional rail electrification could leave weird gaps in otherwise mostly electrified routes like the NEC inland route through Springfield, or service to points north of electrification. In all these instances, an overhead wire dual-mode would serve both NYP, and open up a LOT of possibilities for new routes for Amtrak that run on the NEC and then diverge to various locales that would be well suited to rail service.
west point wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:47 pmHow about MNRR trains continuing up the west side line to SD. Would require CAT once out of NYP and a second main track to SD ? That is if there is enough passenger demand.
It's an equipment problem. If you use third rail-diesel dual modes equipped with PRR shoes, you're stuck with a diesel almost the entire trip. Nothing else could even run that route. Adding PRR third rail to the Amtrak 60hz system north of GATE is the hare-brained idea that CDOT and MN have to stuff the round peg in the square hole and run M-8's into NYP. If that were done, and the PRR third rail were brought north to meet the NYC third rail at SD, they could theoretically run M-8's, but that would require a double-sided shoe that could switch on the fly, and I don't know how difficult that would be to set up.
The longer term solution is that the Hudson Line and and Amtrak to Albany and beyond should be electrified with 25kV overhead wire, electrifying trains to Poughkeepsie, and using M-8/M-10 style cars to switch at Highbridge, keeping compatibility with the Harlem Line for Yankees games, and providing a path for freight into Oak Point that's clear of the third rail. Amtrak would bring the PRR 25hz overhead system north to meet the new MN 60hz overhead power at some point on the Empire Connection.
The bottom line is that the railroads should get away from weird, bespoke solutions as much as possible. LIRR and MN have to use third rail, and the New Haven Line requires both AC and DC power, so doing the same for the Hudson is not adding any new types of equipment. An overhead wire dual-mode design could handle Amtrak and all other commuter railroads except for MN and LIRR, which just need to electrify. I've said that MN should use NJT or NJT-style electric equipment all along, as it already exists, and it already works with all of the power systems involved.