There were plans to tie in the SIRT Staten Island with the rest of the NYC Subway System??

I hear occasionally about how there have been plans since the 1950s of tieing in the Staten Island Rapid Transit with the rest of the New York City Subway system. But knowing today's tunneling tech and having to go under a huge deep bay sound insane and dangerous. I don't even think Robert B Moses could have pulled this off..So other then passing mention was this evert really considered?

So what I have here from google is that in 1922 plans were laid and 150 feet of tunnel was dug...But could it have been sucessfull and if completed would it have turned into a 1970s disaster film?

I don't know enough about tunnel engineering to have an opinion, but I believe the plan was to connect SIRT to the BMT Fourth Avenue line, possibly at 95th St., and the equipment ordered for SIRT was compatible. That would have made a long haul even to Whitehall St., and I think even if it had been placed in service a lot of people would have bailed out at St. George and taken the ferry rather than straphang all the way in, presumably running express from 59th St. with a change at DeKalb. Would have been a bit embarrassing to have the trains running half empty through the tunnel (a widely read daily tabloid would have loved it), although passengers for midtown might have found it worth while. And now that I think of it, for midtown passengers staying on the train would have saved a subway fare in each direction. My own feeling is that passengers who took the bus to St. George would continue to use the ferry (coffee, Danish and a restroom available).

What gets me here is why is Staten Island even part of New York City.. The Island seemed rather remote to me and more of its own thing. I see where you are thinking about the Bay Ridge neighborhood about 95th street being a possible crossing. I think part of the plans were to have vehicle/railway tunnel in addition to the Verrazzo Narrows Bridge. I am not even sure how to get a MTA bus across the bridge these days or where to catch one.

There's a backstory (but I forget what it is) going back to Colonial times about how Staten Island became part of New York City; geographically it belongs in New Jersey. But the SIRT-BMT connection was dead and buried before the Verrazano bridge was considered.

The BART tunnel is longer and in a much less stable area of the Earth's crust. It could be done.

Also - the story behind Staten Island, with the boat, is a myth. There's no actual evidence from it, and it seems most likely fabricated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex74x_gqTU0

How the States Got Their Shapes explains that the New Jersey–New York boundary dispute was resolved by giving NJ underwater rights to the center of the Hudson but giving NY the land above water if the land wasn't attached to NJ, so NY got the islands, including Staten Island.

Literalman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:28 pm How the States Got Their Shapes explains that the New Jersey–New York boundary dispute was resolved by giving NJ underwater rights to the center of the Hudson but giving NY the land above water if the land wasn't attached to NJ, so NY got the islands, including Staten Island.

That is my understanding. Decades ago, I was marginally involved with a project to replace the submarine cable that supplies Liberty Island with electric power. The project began shortly before the US Bicentennial celebration in 1976 and the three phases of the cable were specified by the NJ utility, Public Service Electric and Gas Company ("PSE&G"), to have red, white and blue insulation on the conductors. The cable would be installed underground from Jersey City (at Liberty State Park, the former CRRNJ Terminal and yards) to Liberty Island so the cable would not be visible, but several short lengths were cut off for display purpose. That said, PSE&G's electric franchise is limited to New Jersey, but Liberty Island is in New York. Consolidated Edison Company ("ConEd") has the electric franchise, so ConEd is the utility that supplies Liberty Island and bills the customer for the electric service. It was far less expensive due to the relative distance for a cable to be between NJ rather than NY, so ConEd entered into a contract with PSE&G to own, build and maintain the cable and wheel power on behalf of ConEd.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:23 pm I don't know enough about tunnel engineering to have an opinion, but I believe the plan was to connect SIRT to the BMT Fourth Avenue line, possibly at 95th St., and the equipment ordered for SIRT was compatible. That would have made a long haul even to Whitehall St., and I think even if it had been placed in service a lot of people would have bailed out at St. George and taken the ferry rather than straphang all the way in, presumably running express from 59th St. with a change at DeKalb. Would have been a bit embarrassing to have the trains running half empty through the tunnel (a widely read daily tabloid would have loved it), although passengers for midtown might have found it worth while. And now that I think of it, for midtown passengers staying on the train would have saved a subway fare in each direction. My own feeling is that passengers who took the bus to St. George would continue to use the ferry (coffee, Danish and a restroom available).

If you look at the Wikipedia page on the subject you'll find a lot of information on this subject. I know how many feel about the accuracy of info on Wiki but I also looked at 2 books I have in my personal 'library" and found the info was pretty much the same in content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_Island_Tunnel

The Wiki article has a copy of a 1912 map (plan 51) showing what the then "powers that be" had in mind for the connection.

My reference books:
"Subway - The Curiosities, Secrets and Unofficial History of the New York City Transit System" by John E. Morris published in 2020 Pages 150-152

"The Routes Not Taken - A trip Through New York City's Unbuilt Subway System" by Joseph B. Raskin published in 2014 Pages 123-125

The connection was to leave the 4th Av subway in an area between 67th St and 65th St (starting just south of the 59th St station. It has been ages since I have been in that area but I seem to recall indentations in the tunnel walls (downtown and uptown) indicating a connection of some sort. The info in my references now identify what the intent was. These days with the loss of railfan windows on today's equipment it would be difficult to make these out.