The Rumored End of the MMA?

I'm hearing serious rumors that we're finally near or at the end -- can anyone confirm or deny?

If you're talking about North of Millinocket then definitely. However if the railroad as a whole was going down I don't think they would have bothered to abandon a certain section. Basically if the writing was on the wall they would dump the whole thing. Keep in mind to abandon trackage they have to file with the STB which can take four to eight months. They could have easily filed for bankruptcy or to abandon a larger piece. I don't think they're going anywhere I think they have just reached the point where its time to trim the dead weight. I have to admit they have done well to keep busy with Derby. I think the fact that they are contracting work out shows they are doing all they can to keep things a float. Hopefully when traffic bounces back things will improve.

NYC27 wrote:Also keep in mind that two custom stops in the post 9/11 era would be a major inconvenience for through travelers and slow the trip down. It is only about 7 miles shorter via the ex-CP from Halifax to Montreal (get a Canadian Trackside Guide and do the math) and that distance advantage wouldn't translate into faster transit times because of the grades, curves and track conditions of the route. Sure Saint John is off the Via network but when you look at it objectively, Saint John really isn't big enough to justify a passenger train.

This would seem to me to argue for a straightened route with deviations to create a more significant distance advantage.
Surely rail freight from Halifax to Montreal could run faster via Maine -- this would assume all-CN ownership, though. Despite 9/11, inspections for freight at the border are still pretty minimal.

Does New England simply have poor rail routes? Is the problem that in this day and age rail works, but curve-laden alignments from the earliest days of rail don't so much?

All good discussion. No, I was referring to the whole thing going under, not just Millinocket to Madawaska. Just curious if anyone else was hearing anything.

RailNutNE wrote:All good discussion. No, I was referring to the whole thing going under, not just Millinocket to Madawaska. Just curious if anyone else was hearing anything.

I understand that fact what I'm saying is if the entire line was going down why would they bother trying to dump a part of it? They wouldn't go through all the paper work time and effort to reduce miles if they saw the writing on the wall, they would have just dumped the whole thing. We all know the railroad is not doing well but they still have some steam left.

CN...They are obviously going to try and salvage anything they can (State $$$) and still keep the operation in tact. Any non-foamers have an opinion?

*Moderators Note: Edited to remove Ad Hominem*

This would seem to me to argue for a straightened route with deviations to create a more significant distance advantage. Surely rail freight from Halifax to Montreal could run faster via Maine

The Maine vs all Canadian mileage difference between Halifax and Montreal is minimal (~759 vs ~825). The traffic moving between the Maritimes and the rest of North America doesn't justify three bridge lines (CN, NBSR/MMA, and NBSR/PAR). One would do quite nicely... and since the the CN and PAR are worthy on their own right, i.e., the lines enjoy on-line business and/or serve other functions, it would make sense from an academic perpective to close the MMA line between Keag or Brownville and as far west as it is non self-supporting as a local line. I say academic as the MMA obviously doesn't share that view, and they exaccerbate and perpetuate the issue by keeping the line open through some fuzzy math and government subsidy. I can't say I completely blame them, as relations have never been great with PAR and antecedents, and to quit the old CP would create MMA dependence on PAR bridge services.

With the anticipated turnover of the old BAR to the state, MMA may just turn into one of the biggest welfare-state railroads in the country, on a carload-for-carload basis.

RailNutNE wrote:CN...They are obviously going to try and salvage anything they can (State $$$) and still keep the operation in tact. Any non-foamers have an opinion?

Sir,

You posed a question asking whether or not anyone had heard about the MMA filing for bankruptcy. My answer simply stated that based on the railroads actions in the past four months, it would appear as though they have not yet reached that point. This assumption was made based on the fact that the railroad has decided to restructure rather than to explore bankruptcy options (Chapter 11, Chapter 8) as previously state. I believe I have answered your question to the best of my ability and knowledge.

Thank You,


Charles Hastings
Third Year Communications and Business Major
University of Maine, Orono

*Moderators Note*

Once again I would like to remind all posters to exercise tact when responding to posts.

The guiding precepts for posting on this forum are:

1 - Intelligence
2 - Candor
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I appreciate your cooperation.

B.M. Hensley
"CNJ"

Probably the best route from Montreal and area east to the Maritimes and Halifax is the present main CN freight route via Edmunston. It is completely within Canada, does not have
major grade problems, fully signaled and good for relatively high freight train speeds. Passenger trains use the more northern route to better serve populations and because there
is much less freight operation in that area.
Where does this leave the former CP route across Maine? With the scraps and crumbs, will this sustain the line, I have doubts, you can't keep a freight railroad open just because
it is scenic or serves a beautiful area. It is too bad that there aren't some big users of rail service along this route.
Noel Weaver

For accuracy pupposes, the line between Mattawamkeag and Brownville Jct is owned by NB Southern RR subsidiary, Eastern Maine Railway.........not MMA, as was mentioned in an earlier post.

Upon viewing NBSR train consists in New Brunswick, it does appear to me that the majority of cars are interchanged with PAR at Mattawamkeag. As is known by now, NBSR is currently upgrading its entire mainline between St. John and the Maine border at Vanceboro, to essentially be 286k compatible. Business will certainly increase I'm sure from the upgrade, although it remains to be seen which direction traffic to / from St. John will be directed........to PAR or MMA. With PAR's recent business relationship to Norfolk Southern, I would think NBSR will send increasing amounts of traffic via the Mattawamkeag gateway.

Of course. on the PAR end of things, I understand a lot of their mainline track in Maine is not that great of shape. Did not the MMA in recent years receive financial aid to upgrade West of Brownville ? I can't see this portion of line toward Montreal, being shutdown, especially if the Searsport Project for receiving container traffic is in the works.

I would certainly like to see intermodal traffic across Maine again. Looking back since NBSR begun operation in January 1995, they attempted on two occasions with TOFC traffic, the first around 1998 ( dedicated train to Toronto with CP ) and most recently in October 2003.........the latter lasting to around mid 2006.........as is known, changing U.S. Food & Drug Administration guidelines lead to the cessation of that service.

One can only surmise, the amount of bridge traffic lost through the MMA Maine routing when NBSR signed a long term deal with CN a few years ago, to route its long haul Western traffic to / from St. John N.B., ..........this deal was created from the operating uncertainty of the pending Iron Road bankruptcy.

I stand corrected on the first point - editing error

RE Searsport container traffic. First of all, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to materialize. It's only been talked about since, oh, the container was invented! And where are all these containers going to go? If the US, why wouldn't you want to route them via PAR-NS/CSX? Improved traffic density on PAR will improve profitablity which will improve track conditions which will improve service which may actually bring in more business. This notion of spreading paltry traffic volumes over numerous overhead lines has NEVER worked in the past and will never work in the future.

Hard to believe one can consider Mattawamkeag a "gateway" for anything, but CSX container cars continue to trickle back and forth from Rotterdam Jct up through Northern Maine Junction, 'Keag, and eventually St. John, NB. Is this like a current test-bed project--as if the business is going to take off eventually--or has it been going on for a while?

I, for one, don't expect an immediate rise in service quality north of Portland just because stuff is more fluid west of Ayer. It would just make way too much sense for this rail outfit. Come check out the speeds the trains move out of NMJ, especially to Waterville. Sounds rather dramatic, but the thought of "total carnage" seems to come to mind. Seeing "wide open" ROW only to find 10mph trains. SAD. If Mattawamkeag is to be such a ......gateway, then some things would have to change for the better.

You do have to admit that there is potential. The gap of 10 MPH track is closing. Pretty soon from Mechanicville to Portland and perhaps to CPF 185 (Brunswick Down Easter Expansion) will be fully upgraded. Also from the other side of things the NBSR is upgrading its track to handle higher capacity. This could benefit the MMA if NBSR, MMA and CP try to take on CN service. CN service east of Montreal has been slipping a little with monster trains and derailments. But it looks like the Mattawamkeag Gateway may take shape. This isn't good news for the MMA. The announcement that they are trying to reopen the Millinocket Mill however is very good news...


http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/129015.html

First of all, sorry if my previous post came across as crass, I was just looking for real facts, not speculation. (Probably a little too much to ask for those of us who are disconnected from the industry.) I think what we're ultimately looking at this a upgraded PAR (?!), Keag Junction and Danville Junction being the major interchange points for the state of Maine and the end of the MMA. NBSR-PAR-SLR-CN or NBSR-PAR-SLR-CP (MMA) could be our new western gateways. Thoughts? This bodes well for both the PAR and SLR.