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  • The North Toronto subdivision-and new proposed GO service..

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in Canada. For specific railroad questions, see Fallen Flags and Active Railroads categories.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in Canada. For specific railroad questions, see Fallen Flags and Active Railroads categories.

Moderator: Ken V

 #442222  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone: How busy is the North Toronto subdivision? I have read about a proposal for GO to offer service to the old CP North Toronto station connecting to the Yonge Subway there and the Spadina/Dupont area where a new station would allow connecting to the University/Spadina Subway line.
I looked at Google Maps sattelite section-I noticed that the two stations would have to have two outside tracks at both locations to allow freight trains and deadhead GO trains to pass stopped trains. I feel that CP may want to limit GO service to peak hours only as an example. New stations in north Toronto allowing E/W commuters to bypass Union Station may be a good commuting alternative-but issues would have to be worked out with CP - it looks like to me that line is the main access avoiding Downtown Toronto to Agincourt Yard from the West. The Spadina/Dupont station location is a good alternate route instead of connecting to the TTCs at-capacity Yonge Subway line. I understand that GO has a good working relationship with CP concerning the Milton line. A GO line across North Toronto would be an alternative to using Union Station-which is nearing peak-hour capacity now. Can GO and CP make this alternate service reality? MACTRAXX

 #442350  by Ken V
 
GO service on CP's North Toronto line has been talked about for many years now and, I believe, is included in the provincial government's far-reaching MoveOntario 2020 proposal. Nevertheless, it's not very high on GO Transit's priority list.

The North Toronto Sub is quite busy as it carries all westbound trains originating in or passing through Toronto. It's likely that CP will require additional capacity be built for the line before allowing any GO traffic.

Note: topic moved from Canadian Pacific to Canadian Railfan

 #442524  by trainmaster_1
 
CPR's North Toronto Subdivision currently handles close to 60 trains a day now from the 50 it carried before, if GO Transit was ever to run on the North Toronto Sub, GO Transit would have paid for the line to be upgraded with new track and signal systems or...have a third track put in place in almost the entire portion of the subdivision to avoid the hassle of freight's being held for pending GO movements.
 #442589  by MACTRAXX
 
TM1: Thanks for the reply! 60 trains a day-it's quite a busy line! I feel now and agree that CP would demand that GO pay for a third track and more line capacity. I now also wonder if any CN freight trains use this line also-it would make sense to avoid downtown Toronto and the Union Station area. In closing is GO willing to spend the money to make this service a reality? That is the question...MACTRAXX

 #442694  by Ken V
 
CN runs very few freights through downtown Toronto. They have their own northern bypass, so do not use the CP North Toronto Sub either, except on very rare occasions. And CN's line is even busier than CP's.

I can't dispute the 60 trains per day since I don't know the actual number, but that seems awfully high to me. My own estimate would be about half that (still very busy) and includes locals and transfer jobs between Agincourt and Lambton and Obico.

Getting back to GO. If they had the money to implement a crosstown service along with all the other service extensions and frequency enhancements on their wish list, I'm sure they would do it. Without the funding, however, I think several other items would come first.

Another question could be whether GO might also add a route across the top of Toronto on the CN line. Someday, maybe.
 #467354  by lock4244
 
MACTRAXX wrote:TM1: Thanks for the reply! 60 trains a day-it's quite a busy line! I feel now and agree that CP would demand that GO pay for a third track and more line capacity. I now also wonder if any CN freight trains use this line also-it would make sense to avoid downtown Toronto and the Union Station area. In closing is GO willing to spend the money to make this service a reality? That is the question...MACTRAXX
A number of those moves are light power. Intermodal trains from western Canada will drop their train at Vaughan Intermodal Terminal and run light power to Toronto (Agincourt) Yard. IM's to W. Canada will often leave TY light and run to VIT. Sometimes these guys have loose car fill on them going to/from TY as well... plenty of short trains. Thanks to the fill, many of these train look quite comical with 2 to 4 big AC units and 20 or fewer cars.