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  • The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #1197536  by nick11a
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
nick11a wrote:I'm told that the Bergen Line is the busier (and faster, barely) of the two routings. The Main Line is called the Main Line as it was the original Lackawanna Main Line (up through Paterson) and was the first few stops on the present day Boonton Line (pre-Montclair Connection and pre-NYGL). The Port Jervis Line will use either the Main or the Bergen Line, depending on the schedule (and also, depending on conditions; I've been on trains that were routed to the other line due to changing conditions.)
The Main Line was the original Erie Main Line from Jersey City to Chicago via Paterson, Buffalo and Akron. It was in 1963 that the section in Passaic was abandoned (by request from local officials) in favor of a reroute via the Lackawanna Boonton Line from West End north over Upper Hack and via Clifton to Paterson Jct. where the Newark Branch connector would link to the original Main Line. The Boonton Line now went via the Greenwood Lake to Mountain View and then west on the original route, as the section in West Paterson and Totowa was severed by I-80 construction. Bergen Line is 100% Erie, Main Line is Erie north of Paterson, the former built as a "bypass" or shortcut. Rutherford was part of the original Main Line.

See maps: Pre 1963 Post 1963
That is, of course, the much more thorough explanation. :-)
 #1197852  by trainbrain
 
There are some 2 hour gaps in the weekend schedule to Suffern. There is one between 1707 and 1711, another between 1711 and 1715, another between 1719 and 1723, and another between 1731 and 1735. I use Suffern Station most often, so the two first gaps do not affect me since there is an express that runs between them, but the last two gaps are a major inconvenience in some cases. Also for the last 2 gaps there is a Waldwick train that runs between in the spot that the Suffern train would. Wouldn't it be possible to extend that train to Suffern? Solutions to the gaps between Suffern trains are below. For the gap between 1731 and 1735 extend 1883 to Suffern and number it 1783. It would return on a train that ran in the 82 slot which would make the same stops that 82 does now. It would be numbered 1734. Make 82 run express to Ridgewood and make local stops on the Bergen Line to replace train 1882 which is currently 1883's return train. For the gap between 1719 and 1723, extend 1871 to Suffern, number it 1771 and run it earlier by about 15 minutes. It would return as soon as possible on a train that runs in the 1870 slot, but starting at Suffern and numbered 1770. The gaps in the morning could be filled by running 2 additional Suffern Main Line locals numbered 1709 and 1713. They would return in the 74 and 76 slots numbered as 1710 and 1714 respectively and making the same stops. 74 and 76 would run slightly earlier and run express to Ridgewood and then make all stops on the Bergen line. There are more gaps to fill after the lines split but they could be filled in more easily. All that would need to be done would be to add additional Waldwick trains to fill in the gaps on whatever line they ran on. All of this would cost money but full hourly service would be a huge benefit. Also I do not work on NJ Transit so there are most likely problems that I do not know of that result in these 2 hour gaps and it may not be practical to fill them in the way listed above. This is what I think would be a practical way to fill in the 2 hour gaps for all stations with the least amount of additional cost.
 #1197913  by erie910
 
The Main Line was the original Erie Main Line from Jersey City to Chicago via Paterson, Buffalo and Akron. It was in 1963 that the section in Passaic was abandoned (by request from local officials) in favor of a reroute via the Lackawanna Boonton Line from West End north over Upper Hack and via Clifton to Paterson Jct. where the Newark Branch connector would link to the original Main Line. The Boonton Line now went via the Greenwood Lake to Mountain View and then west on the original route, as the section in West Paterson and Totowa was severed by I-80 construction. Bergen Line is 100% Erie, Main Line is Erie north of Paterson, the former built as a "bypass" or shortcut. Rutherford was part of the original Main Line.
A bit more detail: Service on the Lackawanna Boonton Line did not end in 1963. My April 1, 1963 E-L Main Line/Newark Branch/Bergen County Line passenger timetable shows a few rush hour trains running to Dover via Paterson/Marshall St.

Also, Newark Branch trains had been rerouted via a connection through South Paterson to the Lackawanna Boonton Line for a short distance to the original Newark Branch right-of-way. The Erie sold the former Newark Branch r-o-w from the junction with the Lackawanna Boonton line to about Hazel St. The city of Clifton constructed Kuller Road on that right-of-way. The old Newark Branch connection with the Main Line was at grade, crossing Main St. and Getty Av. During the construction of the elevated connection between the Erie Main Line and the Lackawanna Boonton Line, Newark Branch trains originated on a yard siding just (timetable) west of Main St. Passengers from Paterson and west were bussed from the Erie Paterson station to the spot where the Newark Branch trains originated, and, of course, from that spot to Paterson in the evening. The siding used for that purpose still had a diamond in the middle of Main St. where the trolley track crossed it.
 #1205796  by EuroStar
 
The Superstorm Sandy recovery page of NJT says that only 97% of the Main/Bergen County line have been restored. I do not have an old schedule -- which trains have not been restored? How is the service different now -- any missing expresses or expresses that are now locals?
 #1205849  by SecaucusJunction
 
All of the MTA express trains have been restored. I would suspect that the other 3% are trains that NJT wanted to cut anyway. This just gave them a good excuse to do it.
 #1205987  by JoeG
 
When they first gave the 97% number I tried to figure it out. It looks like a couple of the Waldwick locals were not restored. I, too, suspected they didn't want them back. For whatever reason, my morning train, 52, from Suffern to Hoboken, has performed better since it was restored. Its exact arrival time matters to me because of the light rail connection. Before Sandy I usually missed the early light rail and now I usually make it.
 #1205988  by trainbrain
 
Here are the differences I found. I think I have covered them all.

Inbound:

1202, 1204, and 1206 run a minute earlier but make the same stops.
1254 leaves Waldwick 3 minutes earlier and makes additional stops at Broadway, Plauderville, and Rutherford.
1208 leaves Waldwick 2 minutes earlier.
1156 leaves Suffern 2 minutes later, has an additional stop at Ridgewood, but no longer serves Plauderville and Rutherford.
1158 was shortened and does not serve stations west of Waldwick being renumbered 1258, it leaves Waldwick 20 minutes earlier than 1158 did.
1260 was lengthened to serve all stations from Suffern to Waldwick and was renumbered 1160.
1104 was truncated to Waldwick and was renumbered 1212, 1160 runs in its spot from Suffern.
1162 was cut, 1264 was lengthened to Suffern and renumbered 1164 to replace it.
The rest are the same.

Outbound:

1201 was cut
1145 now terminates at Waldwick and is numbered 1245
1105 leaves Hoboken 2 minutes earlier.
1203 was cut.
1109 leaves Hoboken 1 minute earlier.
1147 leaves Hoboken 2 minutes earlier, no longer serves stations past Waldwick and was renumbered 1247.
1205 no longer serves Ho Ho Kus and Waldwick and was renumbered 1305.
The rest are the same.
 #1206095  by SecaucusJunction
 
NJT basically let the hurricane do their dirty work. They have been cutting service to Hoboken for at least 5 years now and I'm sure they would like to find any excuse to continue even though ridership on the line is strong. MTA lost riders due to various storms but brought all their ST service back quickly. There is talk of further expansion to gain further ridership in that area. The NJT trains have been getting slower and less frequent for years... and it isn't just the Main/Bergen that is suffering.
 #1206131  by SecaucusJunction
 
M&E, NJCL and M-B have all seen service cuts to Hoboken. I'm sure you've read about it. And every line has had lengthened schedules.
 #1206226  by JoeG
 
NJT has been lengthening schedules for years For that matter, the Gladstone Branch has faster schedules 100 years ago, while the trains were pulled by small steam engines. On weekends and off-hours, the trains are excruciatingly slow on the Main/Bergen line. The dwell times are ridiculous, to match the padded schedules.
One thing, MN service still hasn't recovered ridership to pre-Sandy levels. My impression is that many of these riders have taken to driving to Ramsey Rt 17, since that station seems much busier. Does anyone have numbers on the ridership at Ramsey Rt 17?
 #1206499  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Something tells me that NJT has used Sandy as an excuse to cut service. A few Mtc-Btn line trains haven't been restored yet. I feel that you don't always get what you pay for with NJT's fares. Using their services sometimes can be a waste of time.
 #1206603  by Defiant
 
I agree that the service needs to be more frequent, particularly on weekends and during the work days after 6:30 pm. But using NJT services is the only sane way to go East to Manhattan or Jersey City or Hoboken during rush hour. Otherwise, it is possible to rot in traffic and go crazy.

On weekends, it is another story. The service is so sparse that sometimes driving is easier. But then there is an issue with parking. It is very unfortunate that they offer such a poor servcie on weekends with huge gaps between trains.
 #1206628  by SecaucusJunction
 
njtmnrrbuff, truer words could not have been said....

Yes, Jersey folks definitely get the shaft in regards to commuting/traveling to NYC. Areas to the north and east of service are blessed with much better service. Express service, no transfers and faster speeds are all found in non-NJT territory. Going to NYC at an off peak or weekend time is slow and painful, which is why I will take the drive over the Tappan Zee and go in that way if I need to be in the city. If you're in Rockland or Northern Bergen County, I'd suggest it as a much better option to midtown Manhattan.
 #1206743  by njtmnrrbuff
 
The weekend service could be better on the Main and Bergen County Line, but it's not that bad, especially if you live in Ridgewood or Glen Rock. If I were in Northern Bergen County I would probably either take NJT or else the bus. If I lived in Eastern Rockland County I would prefer to drive across the Tappan Zee to Tarrytown and then take advantage of Metro North's service. I would also consider using the PVL, which obviously has better service than before the sidings but still inconvenient. The North Jersey to Midtown Manhattan Bus Market is huge, especially in Ridgewood.

Talking about very sparse service, the weekend shuttle service on the Montclair-Boonton Line is a perfect example. Montclair is about 12 miles from Midtown Manhattan and there are plenty of people who would depend on better weekend service, especially serving the stations in Upper Montclair and MSU. Whenever I go into the city on weekends from Upper Montclair, I generally depend on the less than steller Decamp 66 route. The buses have a poor on time performance, especially when there is traffic.
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