• The East Side Access Project Discussion (ESA)

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

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  by belpaire
 
photobug56 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:11 pm but you also need emergency power for escalators
You do know what escalators become when they're not powered, don't you?
  by photobug56
 
That matches my understanding. At the time, it was thought that MNRR had sufficient unused trackage in GCT for adding ESA but wanted nothing to do with it. And there would have been issues; would you use consists with dual upper lower third rail shoes, for instance. But experts in the field felt it was doable, and at much lower cost. Regardless, much of the cost of ESA is related to, supposedly, incompetence, lack of supervision, nepotism, massive numbers of workers without actual work to do, excessive tool spec requirements and the like.
  by photobug56
 
belpaire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:53 pm
photobug56 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:11 pm but you also need emergency power for escalators
You do know what escalators become when they're not powered, don't you?
If this were at a 20 foot depth, a handicapped person might get carried up. But at this depth, there are lots of people who can't make it up and would be stranded. If summer, the heat could kill them. It's not the joke you imply it is. Though I'd guess that MTA Construction considers it a joke.
  by Head-end View
 
The PATH platforms at the World Trade Center are similarly very deep but I've never felt uneasy about traveling thru that facility (the old or the new). But then Port Authority runs a more heads-up operation than MTA.
  by photobug56
 
Consider, though, that the one thing PA was created to do, build a rail tunnel from NJ to Long Island (Brooklyn) still doesn't have any plans after what, nearly a century? I have little respect for either agency, let alone trust. But MTA has long shown minimal interest in ADA beyond what it's forced to do.
  by ExCon90
 
belpaire wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:53 pm
photobug56 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:11 pm but you also need emergency power for escalators
You do know what escalators become when they're not powered, don't you?
Those will be lo-o-o-o-ong escalators, and there are no intermediate landings on dead escalators; if somebody needs to stop and get their breath, everybody behind them stops while they struggle to cope. It could be a real problem for EMS people to get a stretcher halfway down and then back up with somebody on it.

Come to think of it, what is the status of the original generating station deep down under GCT? Does it still function, and what is the source of its power?
  by belpaire
 
How do these escalators compare lengthwise to the Subway ones at 53rd & Lex.? What safety systems are in place there?
  by Jeff Smith
 
photobug56 wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:15 pm That matches my understanding. At the time, it was thought that MNRR had sufficient unused trackage in GCT for adding ESA but wanted nothing to do with it. And there would have been issues; would you use consists with dual upper lower third rail shoes, for instance. But experts in the field felt it was doable, and at much lower cost. Regardless, much of the cost of ESA is related to, supposedly, incompetence, lack of supervision, nepotism, massive numbers of workers without actual work to do, excessive tool spec requirements and the like.
You're not far off the mark; certainly, the costs on projects in NY are much higher. I also think they grossly underestimated the complexity of the project.
  by photobug56
 
There is a long history of MTA and its predecessors underestimating costs and difficulty. Add to that the poor project setups before design-build and all sorts of waste and corruption plus the highest union labor costs in the world.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Even the Hudson Yards extension (which was 100% City and MTA, non-federal), fell behind schedule. The target
was end of 2013 (as Bloomberg who as mayor initiated the project in 2005 would want it complete by the end
of his term) , but pushed back to June 2014, early 2015 and finally September 2015. (The mayor did ride a train
into the incomplete station shell in December 2013 as a press event in one of his final appearances in office.)
  by DaveBarraza
 
photobug56 wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:42 pm They kept budget over runs down by eliminating a station, as I recall.
Yes they did. The shell of the station was built and the signaling supports a dwell time there, but they sold off the property where the station entrance was supposed to be and it's basically cut off. worked out OK unless you were planning on making that your station..
  by gamer4616
 
Some new information has popped up.

This is effective November 15th, 2021 as per General Order 703


Grand Central Terminal Branch has been added to the employee timetable, in the special instructions. It is not printed yet in the station pages. This is the first reference to Grand Central Terminal in the employee timetable.





Some information...

E10 locomotives, E15 locomotives, E20 (GP38's) locomotives, DE/DM locomotives, and M3 equipment are all prohibited in GCT. So M7/M9 only for GCT. This was assumed to be the case.


Station Tracks are listed as:
201-204, 301-304


GCT will consist of 6 Interlockings (GCT 1-6)


The upper level will have 2 "island" platforms with 4 tracks (201-204), and that will trail west into 2 "Tail Tracks" (T202 and T203 track)

The lower level will have 2 "island" platforms with 4 tracks (301-304), and that will trail west into 2 "Tail Tracks" (T302 and T303 track).

The way it looks, the tail tracks will be stub ended tracks that can fit one train west of the station (providing 4 yard tracks). Although, it isn't exactly clear from what I can see, how long these tracks are.

East of GCT, will be Plaza Interlocking. From there, trains can be routed east through 3 tunnels or a lead track to midday yard (next to sunnyside yard).



Similar to the East River tunnels, there will be automatic signals in the tunnels, with a bunch of signals left of the track in the interlockings and the automatics in the tunnels.
  by photobug56
 
No surprises here. Question - last I heard M9 based trains were very few in number - has anything changed?
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