The CEO of Amtrak Thinks Americans Are Ready for Trains Again

https://slate.com/business/2021/03/amtr ... virus.html

I'm surprised there hasn't been a topic on this yet; perhaps we've been talking about it within the confines of other topics. If I've missed it, let me know.

And he says sleeper cars are making a comeback.
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There’s 100 million more people in the United States today than there were when Amtrak was created in 1971. And if you look about the shift of where people moved to and where they have moved from, there are 20, 25 dense corridors across our nation where Amtrak has little to no service. And that’s where people have moved to. Think about the corridors in Arizona, between Phoenix and Tucson and Flagstaff, and the route between Las Vegas and Southern California. Look at the growth that we’ve experienced in the Carolinas, for example, from Raleigh to Charlotte and Greensboro and Winston-Salem—we started the service there a couple of years ago with two trains a day, and we’re looking to grow that to six trains a day along that route.

A lot of the growth I’m talking about here would occur on corridors we already serve, but we’re only serving them once a day. Another that comes to mind is Nashville to Atlanta, with stops in Chattanooga. Try to fly that. There’s no service there. It’s a major corridor. It’s an integrated economy. I could go on and on, but I believe these areas of opportunity allow us, over the next 20-year period of time, to double our ridership.
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There’s been a return of low-cost sleeper trains in Europe, where they’re catching on with young people who don’t want to fly, and maybe want the romance of the experience or something like that. Is that something that you have looked at for Amtrak?

Right now, our sleepers are essentially fully utilized. I told you that our ridership is in the low 20s right now, compared to pre-COVID times. But our sleepers, when we look at our long-distance trains, we’re actually operating not at 20 percent of demand, we’re operating at 34 to 35 percent of normal on three-day-a-week service down from seven. Several months ago, we had to bring sleeper cars out of storage and put them in service because our sleepers are simply sold out. Travelers like the sleeper product. They find it to be a good deal and they like the fact they can get in a sleeper car and close the door.

We have some overnight trains on the Northeast Regional, from Boston down through to D.C. We’re putting some sleeper cars on those overnight trains right now to see what the rider acceptance would be of that product as well.
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The elephant in the room is the freight railroads. There are a lot of routes where the percentage of trains that arrive within 15 minutes of schedule is under 50 percent. How do you go about wresting control of some of these tracks away from freight companies? That’s probably going to be a major part of getting service up to par on some of these medium-distance routes you were talking about earlier.

You’re absolutely right. When riding on the freight railroad system, that Amtrak trains actually receive the priority routing they have, per statute, is going to be a key area for Amtrak to address to be able to build out the service that you and I have been talking about. We have a lot of work to do.

The U.S. government allowed the freight railroads to transfer their obligation to provide passenger transportation to Amtrak. It didn’t ultimately relieve them of an obligation to provide passenger rail, but it allowed them to transfer the passenger rails obligations to Amtrak. And then the bargain in return was you don’t have to provide that passenger rail service, but you do have to provide Amtrak the right to access the tracks and to provide preference to Amtrak trains over freight trains. That’s the essential bargain.
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William J. Flynn wrote:U.S. government allowed the freight railroads to transfer their obligation to provide passenger transportation to Amtrak. It didn’t ultimately relieve them of an obligation to provide passenger rail, but it allowed them to transfer the passenger rails obligations to Amtrak. And then the bargain in return was you don’t have to provide that passenger rail service, but you do have to provide Amtrak the right to access the tracks and to provide preference to Amtrak trains over freight trains. That’s the essential bargain.

Wow Mr. Flynn, you need a little "education".

The railroad industry was obligated to run passenger trains while it was a regulated industry with regards to rates and service, simply because there was a "hidebound" regulatory agency that "bent to every political breeze". Railroads remained a regulated industry when RPSA70 was enacted, and that legislation did provide for a moratorium on train discontinuances until A-Day. True, the trains that the NRPC Incorporators directed the Corporation would run were to be run without financial burden to the industry, but the obligation today is honoring a bilateral agreement between Amtrak and each road, which under the Act, each road was obligated to negotiate in good faith with Amtrak. To the industry, it was a "Faustian pact with the Devil", and I'm sure with hindsight the industry, beyond "Ward of the State" Penn Central, over which the only unquestionably essential Amtrak service operated, would have said "thanks but no thanks".

RPSA70 did state that any road choosing not to join Amtrak would be obligated to operate their trains for five years, or until May '76. I'm sure some roads would have succeeded to get trains off during those five years; but consider it certain that anything being run on that May '76 date would be under Petition. Further, with enactment of the Staggers Act, which was implemented during '80 deregulating the industry regarding rates and services. Any train remaining would be gone.

Class dismissed!!!

Jeff I would add Carolinas to Atlanta. The population in Atlanta metro area has at least tripled if not more ?

Is Arizona state any more likely to pony up some matching funds these days ? Tuscon -Phoenix does seem like a good pairing.

west point wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:23 pm Jeff I would add Carolinas to Atlanta. The population in Atlanta metro area has at least tripled if not more ?

There is an active EIS underway for the route between Atlanta and Charlotte. Tier 1 was released in 2019.
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/ ... uction.pdf
History of all the studies to date per Wiki:
"In May 2013, the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA), in cooperation with the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT), initiated a Tier I Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for passenger rail service between Charlotte and Atlanta. During the scoping phase, the six possible routes from the feasibility study were reduced to the following three:
Alternative 1: Southern Crescent
Using the existing Norfolk Southern right-of-way, coextensive with the middle leg of Amtrak's Crescent. The estimated 237-mile (381 km) route would have an estimated travel time of 4:35~5:34 hours, train speed between 79 mph (127 km/h) to 110 mph (177 km/h), with four round trips per day. The route has the lowest capital expenditure cost at $2 billion to $2.3 billion, but is also the least competitive compared to auto and air travel.
Alternative 2: Interstate 85
Using the existing Interstate 85 right-of-way. The estimated 244-mile (393 km) route would have an estimated travel time of 2:42~2:50 hours, train speed between 125 mph (201 km/h) to 180 mph (290 km/h), with 14 round trips per day. The route has the highest capital expenditure cost at $13.3 billion to $15.4 billion, but would be competitive against auto travel.
Alternative 3: Greenfield
The Greenfield alternative is a dedicated-use alternative primarily on new right-of-way. The estimated 267-mile (430 km) route would have an estimated travel time of 2:06~2:44 hours, train speed between 125 mph (201 km/h) to 220 mph (354 km/h), with 16-22 round trips per day. The route would have a capital expenditure cost at $6.2 billion to $8.4 billion, but would be competitive against both auto and air travel, when access and security clearance times are included.

In September 2019, the Tier I EIS was completed. Final selection of a preferred route and approach into Atlanta will be deferred to the Tier II EIS, currently unfunded.
On September 30th, 2020, the FRA and GDOT chose the Greenfield Corridor as the preferred alternative. However, it did not specify a final approach into Atlanta

At 2.0 to 2.75 hours travel time between Charlotte and Atlanta, being less than 3 hours. it should gain the majority market share over airlines of intercity passengers between these two cities . I wish the same could be true between D.C. and Charlotte, but alas it will not.

When the Tier 2 study will be completed I do not know, but there will not be a final decision of record until a draft has been released to the public and a final has been published after public comment upon the draft. To release the final EIS statement a decision on where to site the Atlanta train station and how to reach it has to be decided. So that is probably, at least, another year away. It might take years for that decision to be made by the GDOT.

David Benton wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:40 pm Is Arizona state any more likely to pony up some matching funds these days ? Tuscon -Phoenix does seem like a good pairing.

A Tier 1 EIS study was released in 2016 by AZDOT. A Tier 2 study would have been started if AZDOT ever received federal funding to commence it.
https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2 ... cision.pdf
As of September 2020, no federal funding has been allocated for the Tier 2 study.
http://colorail.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... lStudy.pdf

So this train is in limbo today awaiting funding to commence the Tier 2 EIS.
Never-the-less, being around a 120 mile route AZDOT wanted, it would have been an 80 mph max speeds commuter rail train similar to what exists in New Mexico. It was not being planned as a high speed rail line.

Given the urban (?)sprawl of Phoenix , i'm not sure HSR would work anyway . I would think DMU/EMU's, that cover a few urban routes , then quick couple for the country section to Tuscon , would be a better option.

After living in Tucson for many years, there's not much interest there in having light rail or commuter service to PHX. It's a city that doesn't want to be a city.

On an average day it was just over an hour from the northern suburbs of TUS to Sky Harbor, and as dispersed as PHX is, there's no one place you could target as an endpoint for commuters, which implies a 2-3 hour commute by rail.

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Regarding Atlanta-Charlotte service mentioned, what is to prevent Amtrak or whomever starting a daytime run between the two cities other than NS and possible lack of train servicing in Atlanta. I know it would not be your vision of HST but it would be a start. Current bus competition is 4-1/2 hours and auto time varies depending on exact location you are going. Pehaps you discussed this before, but endless studies have not produced anything.

Well to start, those barriers you list are pretty big.

NS really isn't a fan of the Crescent tying up Atlanta's Peachtree station as it is. Adding another train to the mix will really put them off.
And lack of servicing is a problem, but has been handled in the past as Amtrak has turned the Crescent there in the past.

Honestly, I'd still favor a full on day train from DC to Atlanta if you're going to simply add a single train.

urr304 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 am Regarding Atlanta-Charlotte service mentioned, what is to prevent Amtrak or whomever starting a daytime run between the two cities other than NS and possible lack of train servicing in Atlanta. I know it would not be your vision of HST but it would be a start. Current bus competition is 4-1/2 hours and auto time varies depending on exact location you are going. Pehaps you discussed this before, but endless studies have not produced anything.

Amtrak is not going to add a day train between Charlotte and Atlanta on their own dime. They will expect one, two, or possibly three states to subsidize it. (1) North Carolina is more interested connecting Charlotte with Raleigh and DC -where they are already subsidizing trains. (2) Georgia wants more for their dime - why there is an EIS study underway. (3) South Carolina is happy with the services Amtrak already provides, with a total of 8 daily long distance Amtrak trains running through it.

Therefore any improvements to be made along this corridor will be what Georgia decides to do. That deserves repeating so it will sink in, what Georgia - not Amtrak - decides to do. If you need proof, just look at who is financing as the lead agency of the EIS underway, GDOT.

America might be ready for trains again when Amtrak’s on board customer service doesn’t suck...

I'm going to quibble a bit. I have had some great customer service on-board. What I think is that it be consistently good.
I mean I've had the conductor who engaged in assault on a co-worker when he shoved him into a seat (and was later quite rude to me on another trip when I asked a simple question) to the cafe attendants who have done amazing things in the cafe car.

So ideally, I'd simply start with getting consistent service : -/

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:06 am Well to start, those barriers you list are pretty big.

NS really isn't a fan of the Crescent tying up Atlanta's Peachtree station as it is. Adding another train to the mix will really put them off.
And lack of servicing is a problem, but has been handled in the past as Amtrak has turned the Crescent there in the past.

Honestly, I'd still favor a full on day train from DC to Atlanta if you're going to simply add a single train.

The platform track is a main line track IIRC; although there is a freight "bypass" behind the platform, Amtrak still gums up the works.

When they turn there, it also ties up traffic.

They've been talking about moving out of Peachtree station for a while, and NS would definitely be happy if they did. If so doing would create a platform siding similar to Savannah or such, and somewhere to store a day train, they'd be very happy.

The one thing ending a train in Atlanta has in its favor is avoiding Howell Junction.

Ultimately, I'd like to see a continuation south, perhaps off a Chattanooga routed train, via Macon on to Savannah, or even Valdosta/Waycross.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:28 am Ultimately, I'd like to see a continuation south, perhaps off a Chattanooga routed train, via Macon on to Savannah, or even Valdosta/Waycross.

You get to Waycross, you may as well go the extra 60 miles to Jacksonville, FL.

55k people in "metro" Waycross vs. 1.5mm in metro J'ville.