The Canadian and Snow

Evidentally the Canadian is having some timekeeping issues due to various weather related problems out West (snow) and freight congestion this has produced. Reports of the westbound Canadian arriving 12 hours late into Vancouver and the eastbound Canadian being anulled at Capreol and passengers being bussed between Capreol and Toronto (or a stub train operating). Tomorrow's Canadian, Thursday November 30th, will have its passengers bussed between Toronto and Capreol.

I would think that VIA could have a spare trainset for the Canadian in Toronto, like they have in Vancouver in the off season when the Canadian operates with less cars. Even with the Ocean operating with one ex-CP Stainless Steel trainset, one would think enough cars would be available for a stub train from Capreol to Toronto or a Canadian trainset - a stub train including baggage car, coach, VIA 1 Car (for sleeping car passengers), diner and Skyline or Park Car.

Supposedly VIA is hoping the now four hour late eastbound train out of Edmonton today will make up time and also make it all the way to Toronto so it can be turned to become the next day's westbound Canadian and things get back to normal.

Is this a little unusual for the Canadian? I hadn't heard of bustitution and stub trains like this for the Canadian.

Is CN and CP sharing additional trackage to help move freight across the country during this time? Would be nice if VIA could do the same, as necessary (in sections where VIA doesn't already operate the Canadian over CP trackage).

Interesting how Amtrak has no problem running 6 to 12 hour late trains, but VIA does.

It's been a while since VIA has been bussing passengers from Capreol to Toronto and from Toronto to Capreol. A few years ago it seemed to happen several times a year. But more recently, the Canadian has been sent into Toronto even if it arrives well after midnight. I had friends arrive in Toronto last year at 07:00 instead of 20:00 the previous evening. A week later, on the day they left for home, the Canadian arrived at about 06:00 and didn't depart until near 14:00 instead of 09:00, but at least it was a train and not a bus.

On some occasions, when the Canadian is extremely late arriving in Capreol, passengers are bussed down to Toronto because there is no equipment in Capreol, but a shuttle train is put together in the morning for the trip up to Capreol. For this reason, being a person whose tolerance of a bus extends only to an hour or so, I am always concerned about lateness on the eastbound run. I am hoping to catch the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver in about two weeks. If it replaced by buses then I will simply cancel my trip.

My information from VIA is that on Monday of this week, passengers were bussed from Capreol to Toronto, but a shuttle train operated Tuesday morning up to Capreol. But on Wed. and today, busses were used in both directions. What is absurd about this is that the Canadian was a mere six hours late arriving in Capreol Wed. afternoon. The busses were expected to arrive at Toronto Union at 01:00. One has to wonder why the train wasn't allowed to continue on its way.

VIA should have enough equipment, not in use during the off season, to have a make-up consist for the Canadian available, however, most of it is kept in Montreal. VIA has certain maintenance facilities and staff in Montreal (and Vancouver) that Toronto doesn't have, so keeping a spare trainset in Toronto may not be practical. VIA also makes use of this down time to perform more extensive maintenance on the Budd cars than can be done during the busy season.

VIA does keep some spare equipment in Toronto to allow for varying length trains, bad ordered cars, and other things. This will usually provide enough cars to form a stub train as was the case this week. On Tuesday's train there was a baggage car, three coaches, two diners, and a park car.

There doesn't seem to be any consistency as to when VIA chooses to turn the train in Capreol or continue all the way, or when passengers are bused or a shuttle train is used. I agree that, at only 6 hours down, VIA should have sent Wednesday's #2 through to Toronto. As for Amtrak handling 6-12+ hour late trains without problems; well, they've had lots more practice.

On the freight side, I haven't heard of any additional sharing of tracks between CN and CP in the west during this bad weather snap.

Appears there is no short term relief in sight, as currently the eastbound train to Toronto (#2) is over 8 hours late and isn't expected to arrive Capreol until 7:30 p.m. (19:30) tomorrow, Friday, Dec 1. It left Edmonton around 4 hours late and left Winnipeg at around 8 hours late. Buses may be on call at Capreol! I think it's time to get the stub train out for Saturday's westbound departure from Toronto as a bus will likely be in place at Capreol to bring passengers east to Toronto. Or start getting a spare Canadian in place. What's in Vancouver? However, I think Ontario is expecting snow tomorrow, so not sure if bus will be better than train.

I've also known VIA to run the train all the way through despite how late it is running at Capreol. A few years ago, passengers got a unique journey on the CP rail from Sudbury to Toronto. But I assume with all the traffic on CP and CN due to the weather, CP is not about to open its railroad up to VIA's Canadian (ironic eh?).

Hope the weather breaks - here in the States (New York City area) we are dealing with unseasonably warm weather, but I hear a cold snap will soon be in place by early next week!

Hi All,

Rather surprising. Seems to me that this RR should be used to that sort of weather and be suitably prepared to deal with it. Starting off with lead engines carrying snow plows on their pilots, to short trains with snow fighting equipment running the route to keep the rails clean in between scheduled trains, to the heavy artillery, snow blowers and rotaries.

In the dead of winter I have no reservations on changing airliners at such airports as Salt Lake City, Utah, Minneapolis/ St. Paul, Minn. etc. These airports consider snow removal standard operating procedure. And, I have never had a problem changing aircraft and being on time at any one of them.

This train does usually do very well in the snow, that's why this is rather unusual, at least to me. I think there's just a LOT of freight congestion and a brutal cold snap with snow etc.

Well today's eastbound Canadian is scheduled to arrive into Toronto at 3:45 a.m. Supposedly they are running the train all the way through! Will likely be later. It's going to be a quick turn around if they plan on using the same trainset! Hopefully things will start to clear up on the Canadian transcon!

I have been tracking this train because I have three friends on board. It arrived this morning (Sat.) at 4:19 a.m. - and it was actually a train, not a bus. These friends had been warned in Winnipeg Thursday night that they may be bussed from Capreol. My advice to them on the phone was to "abandon ship" and head for a hotel and thence the airport in the morning. But they took their chances and I'm glad it worked out for them.

I'm hoping to board the Canadian in Toronto in two week's time. I don't care if it departs late, which is normal when it arrives in the wee hours of the morning, but if the departure board at Union Station says: "Boarding on Front St." I will cancel the entire trip to and from Victoria. After all, I have done the trip many times and my friends in Victoria will understand.

I was following this discussion closely on Friday as I was taking #1 on Saturday morning. Passing thru Union Station Friday evening I checked on #2's status and was told it would arrive around 4am and depart at noon but to be at the station by 11am.

I was staying at the Renaissance Hotel in Rogers Centre (SkyDome) which overlooks the tracks into Union Station and was quite surprised to see #2's consist heading for the TMC at 6:20am. I thought a further delay, so went over to Union for an update at 8am. The Service Manager was at the booth and said the train would be in the Station at 11am, board at 11:20 and depart at 12 noon and that is just what happened. I believe VIA had contacted most of the passengers and those that did show up early were offered a continental breakfast.

And a treat! We backed up to Doncaster approx. 12 miles with the Park Car leading. New milage for me! This manoeuver took exactly 1 hour before we moved forward on the Bella Sub.

We went thru Perry Sound at 4:15pm (scheduled at 12:58) 3 hours 17 minutes late. But made up over 1 hour on the CPR directional running arriving at Capreol at 6:45pm (scheduled at 4:35).

Yesterday we arrived into Winnipeg at 4:40pm and left at 5:20. Now only 25 minutes late. And we just got into Edmonton this morning right on time at 8:05 am.