• Suspend transit fares instead of the gas tax, climate advocates tell Biden

  • General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by wigwagfan
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:12 am There should be *more* transit, especially rail transit, over expanding roads. Repairing, fine. Expanding, no. Transit first. Lay down more rail.
So, you're for more roads?

Seriously. Demanding rail be the priority means not only a very long build-out period, but it also means cutting bus service. Rail simply cannot serve the breadth of trips and destinations that buses can. Focusing on rail means cutting bus service. Portland is literally a case study in this, and the results are crystal clear: Transit ridership from 2005 to 2019 remained exactly constant, despite a growing population. Transit in 2020 bombed of course, but is still only about 50% of pre-pandemic. But road use is now ABOVE pre-pandemic levels and at an historical all-time high.

Why? Because our transit agency, MPO, DOT and cities have focused on rail, which is fixed and doesn't serve the needs of the travelling public. So those who need transit don't have it, or if they can manage to get a bus, it's haphazard and unreliable. The trains are there but running empty, and the Park & Ride lots are empty as well. Notwithstanding the crime issues that are also discouraging transit ridership, but many people have stated they feel safer on a bus than on a train where the sole operator is in a locked cab and generally will not get involved with disruptive passengers.

Want fewer cars and more transit? You gotta love the bus. Want trains? Might as well start planning for freeway expansions now, because you'll end up doing it later.
  by STrRedWolf
 
This sounds like poor transit planning.

I'm not advocating reducing bus service. I'm advocating offloading "long-distance" riders to rail.

Take Baltimore. The bus routes with the most ridership (where the buses, even flex buses, were packed) are the CityLink routes, especially the Green, Silver, Blue, Purple, Pink, and Brown. These "heavy haulers" is where I would put in new rail lines, at spacing that requires buses along the route. The buses would feed the rail that feed into the city, and provide supplemental service. The rail would be faster for those who take the buses at the end points or even half-way there.

Take New York and look at their bus maps. You see that there's a ton of them overlaying the rail network? You could take a bus instead of a subway train. Yes, it's slower because it's road-running and NY City traffic is horrendous on a good day. But it exists as a supplement.

Add, but never subtract.
  by Ken W2KB
 
One example of bus vs. rail. Sometimes bus is faster, a lot faster.

Clinton, NJ bus park and ride to 42nd Street bus terminal, Manhattan: Leaves 7:05 a.m., arrives 8:10 a.m.

Clinton, NJ Transit rail station, less than a mile from the bus station: Leaves 6:45 a.m., arrives NY Penn Station, half a mile south of the NYC bus station, at 8:32 a.m.

So 65 minutes to mid-town Manhattan by bus, 107 minutes by semi-express train. Subtract the 7 minutes for across platform change of trains in Newark, NJ, rail is 100 minutes, i.e., 35 minutes longer than the bus.
  by scratchyX1
 
Ken W2KB wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:01 am One example of bus vs. rail. Sometimes bus is faster, a lot faster.

Clinton, NJ bus park and ride to 42nd Street bus terminal, Manhattan: Leaves 7:05 a.m., arrives 8:10 a.m.

Clinton, NJ Transit rail station, less than a mile from the bus station: Leaves 6:45 a.m., arrives NY Penn Station, half a mile south of the NYC bus station, at 8:32 a.m.

So 65 minutes to mid-town Manhattan by bus, 107 minutes by semi-express train. Subtract the 7 minutes for across platform change of trains in Newark, NJ, rail is 100 minutes, i.e., 35 minutes longer than the bus.
Sort of like how the Express buses on the Dulles toll road are faster than taking the Silver Line in NOVA.
Because those are Direct , with no stops. It's not the mode, it's the route. But there isn't the demand for the extra tracks for express train service.
  by scratchyX1
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:27 am This sounds like poor transit planning.

I'm not advocating reducing bus service. I'm advocating offloading "long-distance" riders to rail.

Take Baltimore. The bus routes with the most ridership (where the buses, even flex buses, were packed) are the CityLink routes, especially the Green, Silver, Blue, Purple, Pink, and Brown. These "heavy haulers" is where I would put in new rail lines, at spacing that requires buses along the route. The buses would feed the rail that feed into the city, and provide supplemental service. The rail would be faster for those who take the buses at the end points or even half-way there.

Take New York and look at their bus maps. You see that there's a ton of them overlaying the rail network? You could take a bus instead of a subway train. Yes, it's slower because it's road-running and NY City traffic is horrendous on a good day. But it exists as a supplement.

Add, but never subtract.
The Greenmont/York road Red Route runs on what would have been the north south subway, which instead became the central light rail, away from the density that makes the Red route the busiest MTA route.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/BRRTS.html
I think the new proposals for Baltimore area east west transportation should be it's own topic.
  by HenryAlan
 
Pakenhamtrain wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:56 am
HenryAlan wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:19 am
eolesen wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:46 am Dumb idea. Paying the fare isn't a core reason as to why people avoid transit.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
But as driving becomes more expensive, lower fares might convince some people.
Fare's aren't the issue. Frequency is.
Particularly on the commuter railroads.
We should do both things.
  by electricron
 
There is no federal transit tax, or federal transit agency actually providing transit trips.
How does US Congress or the US President cut transit fares when they never charge any transit fares?
How do you cut nothing from nothing?

Meanwhile. both the US and States collect gas taxes. It is far easier for the President with Congress approval to cut Federal gas taxes, just because the tax pre-exists. :wink: