Study: Rail Freight Tunnel Would Reduce Traffic

Construction of a new rail freight tunnel between Brooklyn and New Jersey could significantly reduce truck traffic in the region, according to a draft environmental study of the proposed project.

http://1010wins.com/topstories/winstops ... 14211.html

Other incredably obvious facts to follow.


Seriously tho, its good to hear that theres something positive going on outside of the shortlines in this state.

There's a lot more involved in this than building a tunnel. Where on Earth will you put all these trains? If you're not going to build yards, where are these trains going? Most, if not all the truck traffic on Long Island isn't "run-through" traffic, so it has to go somewhere.

If the goal is to get 1 million trucks off of the highways, that would roughly amount to 333,000 freight cars. New York & Atlantic currently handles approximately 20,000 cars, and they're almost at capacity. Where on Earth will the cars go? I can't wait to see the NIMBY reaction to construction of yards in Queens and Long Island, if it's even possible anymore.

Jay

I dunno, where are the 1,000,000 truck trips terminaled? Much of the congestion is at the Hudson River crossings and the roads leading to them. 333,333 freight cars would be about 1,000 cars a day, or 10 trains of 100 cars each. With efficient transfers of containers to trucks it might be doable. Some may be destined for New England?

Regardless of where they are going, yard space is already at a premium. Under the current arrangement of trackage rights, NYAR would do the hauling on the Bay Ridge Line. This transfer would have to happen somewhere. Then, unless the trains were already blocked as a run-through, the train would be switched out at Fresh Pond. It would then be handed off to CSX to go over Hell Gate. I hope the funding considers upgrading the entire Bay Ridge Branch and the NY Connecting Railroad up and over Hell Gate, as it is now a 10MPH line.

As I understand, Oak Point is just about at capacity as well. So where to the rest of the 333,000 cars go? You still need yard space.

Jay

Couldn't the existing yards expanded and smaller yards built to spread out the new rail cars? It very probable that I don't comprehend the area needed to handle 330,000+ cars but might it be manageable with many, smaller improvements? Additionally, if New Yorkers (yours truly included) can be convinced of the benefits of having more freight move via rail then its quite possible that support would grow for building new facilities. Trying to be an optimist!

I dont see what it matters if you move freight in by rail, you still need to move the freight from the intermodal yard to the businesses and docks.

So you'd still have 100,000 trucks on the roads, just not on the bridges.

What NYC needed to do years ago is put in a network of freight tunnels under the city or if they have them, use them again. Move the freight in by rail, transfer it to the distribution system for delivery to the recipients. Much like Chicago's old tunnel system.

However I find it ironic that NYC folk complain about congestion. If you dont like congestion I suggest you not live or locate your business in the NY/NJ metro area.

True. However, removing trucks from the bridges would be a huge improvement to air quality, reduction in travel times and possibly lower the cost of maintenance of roads and bridges. However, a freight rail tunnel would allow freight travelling to/from New England to move through the area without using the local road and bridge network. Additionally, by further utilizing the NYA/LIRR, at least some traffic could be brought closer to or even delivered directly to businesses. Building a network of tunnels under NYC is even more unfeasible due to the extensive network of subways, water tunnels, electrical conduits, etc. that exist.

What NYC needed to do years ago is put in a network of freight tunnels under the city or if they have them, use them again. Move the freight in by rail, transfer it to the distribution system for delivery to the recipients. Much like Chicago's old tunnel system.

The only problem with that idea (which gets brought up semi-seriously every few years) is that the Chicago tunnel system, and others like the London Mail tunnels, are no longer used. Apparently the flexiblity of trucks for small deliveries, even with extreme congestion, outweighs the benefits of the dedicated tunnels.

And, come to think of it, NYC (Manhattan) did have a dedicated network of mail tunnels too at one time: http://www.capsu.org/library/documents/0020.html

The NYC things are were just pneumatic tubes on a huge scale, the Chicago ones are more the type needed, still perhaps to small, but you know that already.

I think what they should do is have all delivery in the City and on Long Island switch over to intermodal containers as the tunnel is being built, and then build a modern intermodal yard somewhere along the shore for ship to rail, ship to truck and vice versa. Local delivery goes out by truck if coming in by rail or ship, if it comes in on a ship, it can either load on the empty intermodal cars and go west, or tie up in Jersey and unload over there.

Sounds to me like this freight tunnel would only move the transloading point from NJ to LI. So you'd remove trucks crossing in from NJ, but unless there are online customers that want rail shipments, then your still going to have as many trucks. As for reducing traffic, aren't trucks banned from the tunnels? There is still a heck of a lot of traffic in the tunnels still. And this tunnel probably wouldn't remove alot of trucks that are traveling to NE unless they build a tunnel to NE somewhere, or plan to hugely increase freight traffic over the hells gate bridge.

They plan on building a yard at the old Pilgrim hospital site out in Suffolk County, so that may help.

Would it be shorter and thus cheaper to build the tunnel from Staten Island by using the the old Staten Island Ry. ROW on the north side of the island?

There has been a plan to build a yard at Pilgrim for over a decade. God only knows how much they've spent on studies to see whether it will be a good idea. Since the last study, a developer has made plans to build a housing community on the site. Any plans to build a freight yard on the site have been kept awfully silent since then. Once the housing is built, I highly doubt the yard will.

As for intermodal, the chance of it working from Pilgrim are slim to none. Intermodal can only compete with trucks if it is fast. With the competition of LIRR trains, interchanging from the designated operator of the Pilgrim site to NYAR, then interchanging again with a Class 1, you've already lost your time advantage.

Jay

Actually, I think NYA will be the ones running to Pilgrim. However, a friend told me CSX at one point was interested in running to Pilgrim as well, but that hasn't been heard in ages.

As of now, NYA and LIRR run fine together. Mostly cuz NYA runs the opposite of the rush hour traffic. If the third track is ever built(or if they just re-open the central and send some trains that way), there would be no problem as far as congestion is concearned.