STB Refuses Voting Trust For CN-KCS Merger; CP Offer On the Clock

F74265A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:13 pm cp once had trackage rights over the ex-PM across Michigan but gave them up 15-20 years ago in favour of cp’s current NS trackage rights across MI. On the map at least, the PM route looks circuitous and much longer

It also has significant grades out of the Kalamazoo River Valley east of Saugatuck, MI.

CP’s self imposed deal deadline of Sunday the 12th is fast approaching

F74265A wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:07 pmCP’s self imposed deal deadline of Sunday the 12th is fast approaching

The nice thing about a self imposed deadline is that it can be extended.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:38 pm With their 49% of the Indiana Harbor Belt (NS and CSX the rest) along with whatever overhead trackage rights the Canadian Pacific enjoys over the Norfolk Southern's New York Central Water Level Route puts them in a far more competitive position for this auto industry traffic and they're "just in time" delivery requirements than the Canadian National could be. I'm certain that Canadian Pacific could find the "Loonies" to quickly get the MILW up to Class 3 and "get in the game" for this auto industry business.

You see, that's just the problem, trackage rights. It's almost always better to have your own route to use someone else's. Now if Canadian Pacific wants to compete for Kansas City-Detroit auto traffic, then who will their main competitor be? Norfolk Southern via the ex-Wabash; and whose railroad does CP have to use for half of its route? NS via the ex-New York Central Water Level Route. NS is going to screw those trains over and prevent that "just in time" delivery from ever happening. Sure, on paper CP's route might be more direct than Canadian National's, but at least CN's route would be CN's exclusively, meaning they have full control over the trains on that route. Does CP have full control of trains over the Water Level Route? No, they are at the whim of an NS dispatcher. I'd go to say that an all CN routing via GTW-IC-GWWR with all its fault would be far more reliable than a CP route via NS for this very reason. My attempt to piece together MILW-IHB-PM was to give CP its own route which it would control, even if it is longer.

Also, the deadline for KCS to accept CP's offer is tomorrow. Maybe this saga will end soon or it will continue on. Let's wait and see.

CP has no access to Auto Assembly plants in Kansas City or Detroit nor anywhere in between, so the only autos CP is hauling is from Canada or IHB to Minneapolis or to destinations in Canada.

NS doesn't seem too hot on the finished auto business, they managed to lose the haul for finished GM pickup trucks from the Fort Wayne plant through poor service. The outbound trucks are hauled to a reload on the CF&E for the short trip to IHB Gibson Yard.

JayBee wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:34 pm CP has no access to Auto Assembly plants in Kansas City or Detroit nor anywhere in between, so the only autos CP is hauling is from Canada or IHB to Minneapolis or to destinations in Canada.

Mr. Jaybee, have you knowledge that CP's access to Detroit industries, which of course means auto, is limited with CRSA?

If so, "I'm all ears" to learn; even if I left the industry forty years ago and not all that much of a railfan, I like to think I keep abreast of its affairs.

Well Mr. Shortline, at least the Pere Marquette resembles a playground slide rather than "The Funk's sheet music clef".

I respect your thoughts so far as being at the mercy of Topper's "unfriendly Train Dispatcher". Hey, "I've done this stuff for a living" albeit not in a while. It happens.

Now if Chessie, who is not in the running to handle this Detroit-KC "just in time" auto industry traffic as she doesn’t get near KC on her own rails, how could her interests be adversely affected if she let the Canadian Pacific on to the B&O? You'd think she could extract a higher rate for trackage over her most direct - and FRA Class 4 - route.

The merger of CP and KCS is much bigger than the route being discussed, which involves neither carrier's tracks.

The trackage rights CP uses on NS (former Wabash to Butler, NYC to Chicago) seem to be serving CP well. I have not seen any bias against CP trains. CP operates a crew base on NS tracks in Elkhart Indiana and trains seem to pass over NS rails as smoothly as any NS train passes through.

CN is different as they have their own path through southern Michigan to Chicago. They too work with NS with a junction in South Bend, but most of the trains pass through that junction as if it were a diamond. Until CN-KCS is revived as a possible merger (able to receive approval by the STB) I won't spend much time on that unlikely outcome.