• Speculation on the future of Southern & Freehold Secondaries - C&D/D&D

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by CharlieL
 
And more, if there's no interchange happening at Jamesburg, D&D and CRSA would need to share the Amboy Secondary. Is that kind of thing done? I could see them not wanting to bite off too much as far as track maintenance goes.
  by CR7876
 
I think its a fair to think that eventually all the work out of Browns yard will be leased out/sold. I can see Conrail coming with the OI16/PR52, but the local work would be gone.
  by R&DB
 
CR7876 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:31 pm I think its a fair to think that eventually all the work out of Browns yard will be leased out/sold. I can see Conrail coming with the OI16/PR52, but the local work would be gone.
If C&D/D&D does a decent job, that might happen. Time will tell.
  by R&DB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:15 pm @R&DB Found out through a C&D employee that the project is wrapped in red tape. Will be a while before anything happens, provided it happens at all.
Would be a waste to back out with all that grant money not used.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:58 pm
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:15 pm @R&DB Found out through a C&D employee that the project is wrapped in red tape. Will be a while before anything happens, provided it happens at all.
Would be a waste to back out with all that grant money not used.
I'd imagine if it hasn't been distributed yet, they could just give the project to someone else

However, since this is NJ, they will send the amount they want to give + 5 years trying to find a replacement.

Merry Christmas everyone
  by Bracdude181
 
I’m not even sure if they will get STB permission since that employee told me that was also something that they were having trouble with.

Additionally since the Southern Secondary is owned by NJT they’d need permission from them to run it, and right now that isn’t gonna happen. NJT is extremely pissed off at C&D right now over a number of things. Mostly for bringing down 2005 and 2006 with flat spots on the wheels and for having 2005 lead trains without PTC. Found this out through a transit maintenance supervisor who was working in Denville during one of my trips up there.
  by CharlieL
 
The preliminary work required for the grant request was not insignificant in terms of time and money. I doubt they would have undertaken it if they were uncertain as to being allowed to operate on the southern. Additionally, conrail supposedly has irrevocable and transferable rights to operate there. Although NJT could throw roadblocks in their way, I don't think NJT has an actual stopper.
  by Bracdude181
 
As part of the rights to operate the Southern, C&D also originally wanted the rights to run between Red Bank and South Amboy so that they could start operating the Southern sooner. NJT denied them access to the trackage rights on the Coast Line. Partly due to the fact that they want freight off that section, but I’m fairly certain that the issues NJT has with C&D are a factor. The aforementioned issues I brought up are not the only things C&D has done whilst running on NJTs network.
  by ccutler
 
Bracdude I believe you when you say NJT has problems with C&D. NJT has been such a wonderful supporter of freight on NJ passenger lines, why would anyone question their judgement? Look at the thriving freight on the RV Line, the flourishing traffic deriving from the industrial parks on the former EL's Main Line near Secaucus, and the easy and fairly-priced access they provide to freight traffic on the NE Corridor. They have also been wonderful stewards of their assets, keeping obsolete trains in flood zones during hurricanes. They should certainly strive to find any flaw for a freight operator as an excuse to shut them down, since NJT's own track record is so immaculate.
  by Bracdude181
 
@ccutler No. Just….No…..

NJT is one of the most, if not THE most strict railroads in the country when it comes to freight trains sharing their networks. They say want can and can’t come down, when it can come down, what engines are allowed and what engines aren’t, and the engines must meet certain standards. Standards which C&D hasn’t been meeting but I’ll get into that.

Freight railroads pay per mile to use NJTs tracks as well.

There is no thriving freight on the Raritan Valley Line. There’s like only 4 customers left and an industrial track that sees so little use it’s practically abandoned at this point. The majority of cars on the RV line go to the plastics transloader in Bound Brook.

Traffic on the Bergen Main Line has been going down for a while. NS H55 was abolished lately, and with the way NS is going H56 and H80 are probably on borrowed time too.

As for the Coast Line:

Well, when they put the catenary wires up, they tore out a freight siding on the Coast Line in 1982 without permission, and later on they scared away everyone else from Red Bank to Bay Head. They have used their freight car restrictions to scare away current and potential customers on the Southern Secondary, (Brick Recycling, EH Allen Pole, Red Bank Recycling, Seaway Intermodal, another guy in Farmingdale who shipped outbound tar loads, etc)

As for C&D, I think NJT has the right to be upset if C&D has been doing the following:

Bringing engines with severe flat spots.
Bringing engines that leak oil from the wheel bearings.
Bringing engines that have faulty brakes.
Leading trains with engines that aren’t equipped with PTC (C&D 2005)
Failing to have an EOTD on the end of all trains.
Speeding (45 in a 40)
Bringing down freight cars with flat spots.
Bringing Plate F cars into areas they say are cleared for Plate C on their website (?!)

That’s everything I know about at least. There’s a few more things NJT gets mad at that are kind nitpicking like excessive horn usage but I haven’t heard the full story on that stuff yet.

One more thing, if NJT is so accepting of freight trains and wants to help improve them. Why is the majority of their network incapable of excepting modern day 286,000 pound freight cars? Why weren’t the catenary wires put up on the Coast Line that were put up after 1980 high enough for Plate F? Why aren’t they putting any money towards Farmingdale to Freehold being reopened since they at least partially own that? Why do they have so many restrictions on what can and can’t come down the Coast Line?
  by CR7876
 
I heard almost the exact same info from a friend of mine. My only concern is he got this info from a competitor of the C&D , and honestly there is a bias there. But honestly get off your high horse of railing against C&D. You bash them, then seek them out to go watch them or where other locomotives are.