Southwest Chief on the Ground in MO

I sure wish the posts on a thread could be numbered sequentially, and we could say "see post #47" or whatever. But anyway :

On the previous page I linked to a RAILWAY AGE article. In that article there is coverage of a NTSB briefing by Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy at 4PM June 28th. In that transcript, she states

The truck traversed the crossing and came into the path of Amtrak train 4. The train struck the back part of the truck, and then the train derailed.

So we have an "official" clarification on that, and stating that much is no longer speculation.

In that same article, there is an aerial photo of the scene, which should answer questions on here of whether the track was straight ("tangent" is the way it's usually described in official investigations). Granted the view is eastward, but from what I have seen in other pics I believe it's a long tangent before the crossing as well as after.

So we can't tell how far a truck driver could have seen. But it's interesting to see another crossing just a bit farther down the tracks - I'm SPECULATING that there are piles of crossings, in some cases linking parts of farms and the like. I wonder, assuming I'm correct, how big a problem this is - active tracks with fast trains on flat ground in the 'middle of nowhere', with no gates, no warning bells, no grade separation. Even if only a small percentage were public roads, farm equipment would still be a problem.

BR&P wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:27 pm I sure wish the posts on a thread could be numbered sequentially, and we could say "see post #47" or whatever.

Posts *are* numbered sequentially. Just to the left of your user name and underneath the topic/subject line of your post.



As somebody who moderates other forms, it's not uncommon for us to have to delete posts (spam, off topic, poor taste) or merge/split threads, and that throws thread specific post numbering in a pretty big way.

If a thread gets merged, what used to be #2 could become #27. If a post gets deleted, what used to be #49 could suddenly #48...

With the sequential numbering that's used by this form, the post numbers never change because that's a unique index number in the database starting from the beginning of time for the board. #1601814 will always be post #1601814 regardless if it gets moved something else gets deleted or a thread gets merged. Even if it's deleted, it will always be #1601814.

NYCRRson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:52 pmWell, until the NTSB issues an "Official Statement of Fact" that the Train and the Truck where "Officially" in the same physical location when the "alleged collision of Train bits with Truck bits occurred" then nobody should "speculate" that the Train actually struck the Truck.

The NTSB has already clearly stated on the record that the train struck the truck at a railroad crossing. They have also clearly stated that the head end video from the Amtrak train showed the truck approaching the crossing in a cloud of dust prior to the impact. The NTSB refused to speculate whether or not the truck stopped before impact or stopped and pulled forward. They did the appropriate thing for the NTSB and stated facts. If NTSB on the record statements are not official enough for you that is your own problem. The facts remain facts regardless of if you accept them,

eolesen wrote:Posts *are* numbered sequentially. Just to the left of your user name and underneath the topic/subject line of your post.

Yours was 1601814... It will always be 1601814 even if other posts get deleted.

Understood. On some of my car and old truck forums, each thread numbers its posts in the upper right - OP is #1, the first reply to that, no matter how soon or long after it's posted is #2, etc. From a user's standpoint it's easier, from a tech point I have no idea, I'm a tech semi-illiterate. My guess is if it was quick and easy it would already have been done, so probably the way this forum is set up it's not practical. Not a big deal to me, I can live with what we have.

Those who’d like better software on the forum may contact Jeff Smith or Greg Primrose, the site owners, and offer to buy in.

On that note, let’s continue to discuss the wreck and not phpbb.

BR&P wrote:

eolesen wrote:Posts *are* numbered sequentially. Just to the left of your user name and underneath the topic/subject line of your post.

Yours was 1601814... It will always be 1601814 even if other posts get deleted.

Understood. On some of my car and old truck forums, each thread numbers its posts in the upper right - OP is #1, the first reply to that, no matter how soon or long after it's posted is #2, etc. From a user's standpoint it's easier, from a tech point I have no idea, I'm a tech semi-illiterate.

I'll answer that by updating my response above rather than take up space for those reading only new posts...

Does Amtrak have forward facing cameras that record like some of the commuter agencies and Class 1's do?

That would answer quite a few of those speculation issues i.e. when was the truck on the tracks, if the engineer could see the truck or not thru the brush... and also give a more accurate timeline than just an event recorder.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:02 pm Does Amtrak have forward facing cameras that record like some of the commuter agencies and Class 1's do?

That would answer quite a few of those speculation issues i.e. when was the truck on the tracks, if the engineer could see the truck or not thru the brush... and also give a more accurate timeline than just an event recorder.

The ACS64s have them. Onboard footage from the Frankford Junction crash is out there.

The NTSB woman at the press conference, I think she may be the chairman(woman), said there were two forward facing cameras on the Amtrak locomotive and they had recovered the tapes. She also said there was no inward facing camera which suprised me. I thought they were now standard.

As noted by someone here, the Amtrak cameras had a view of the truck crossing the tracks. I don't recall the exact wording. I BELIEVE she said that the truck got stuck on the tracks, also that there was a large dust cloud.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:40 pmAs noted by someone here, the Amtrak cameras had a view of the truck crossing the tracks. I don't recall the exact wording. I BELIEVE she said that the truck got stuck on the tracks, also that there was a large dust cloud.

As noted above, the NTSB spokeswoman described seeing the cloud of dust approaching the crossing from the point of view of the train's camera but she did not state that the truck was "stuck".

It is fair to state that the truck was on the track at the time it was struck.

Prelim report's out early.

​On June 27, 2022, about 12:42 p.m. local time, eastbound National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train 4 (also known as the Southwest Chief), carrying 270 passengers and 12 crew, derailed in Mendon, Missouri after colliding with a 2007 Kenworth W900B dump truck that was fouling a highway railroad grade crossing. (1) (See figure.) Three train passengers and the truck driver died, and multiple passengers and crew were transported to local hospitals with injuries. Damage was estimated by Amtrak and BNSF Railway (BNSF) to be about $4 million.

​Amtrak train 4, traveling from Los Angeles, California, to Chicago, Illinois, consisted of two locomotives and eight railcars. The collision with the fully loaded dump truck occurred at milepost 363.8 on the BNSF Marceline Subdivision near a rural passive highway railroad grade crossing on County Road 113, also known as Porsche Prairie Avenue. The highway railroad grade crossing was equipped with crossbucks, and a stop sign on the right side of Porsche Prairie Avenue as the dump truck driver approached from the south. All locomotives and railcars derailed with seven of the railcars coming to a rest on their sides. The dump truck received heavy damage and came to rest in a ditch northeast of the rail crossing adjacent to the road.

Summarizing quickly: Tracks (Marceline Subdivision) rated for 90, train going 89, tracks under PTC, data pulled from forward-facing image recorder and event recorder on train, as well as dump truck's control module.

One footnote of interest:

2 Passive highway railroad grade crossings lack train-activated signals or gates to warn of an approaching train. Traffic control devices at passive crossings include advance warning signs, pavement markings, crossbucks, and stop signs.​​

Just for context, A 2007 Kenworth W900B dump truck looks like this:


The height from street to operational cab is 10 feet. The height from street to top of the cab total is 13 feet 4 inches. Needless to say, the driver of this dump truck could see the train over any brush.

From the report

While on scene, National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators conducted highway railroad grade crossing inspections and highway vehicle inspections, reviewed data from the lead locomotive’s forward-facing image recorder and event recorder, obtained the dump truck’s engine control module, and conducted interviews. NTSB’s investigation is ongoing. Future investigative activity will focus on highway railroad grade crossing design specifications, railcar design, survival factors, and passenger railcar crashworthiness.

Well, there’s the agenda of the board hearing and final report.