• Southern Tier - West of Binghamton

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by K4Pacific
 
Thank you Matt,

Being the last sunny day for a few days as we get ready for a rainy nor'easter, there is an extra daytime train on the Tier. Following 38T this morning out of Gang Mills is a 532 for NE. It'll be an interesting catch on the new single track at Owego east. 38T by CP-Corning at 945a
  by Neo
 
I need to correct myself about the rail removal; upon closer inspection this morning, they've just move them off to either side of the ties they were on. I'm curious, why just move them to the side and not actually remove them? Is there a unique procedure/timetable for this?
  by K4Pacific
 
The update: The railroad between Binghamton and Waverly seems to be a night railroad right now. with most running after the 9a - 3p window. A derrick has been out picking up the scraps fouling the main during the day. 12T sneaks through mid-day along with 38T in the morning. However, 205, 39, 23K are out after 5pm. and of course 206, 22K, and 13T are overnight as well. This will be the case too as Phase two of single tracking takes place Owego to Waverly. Interesting to note are the travel times between Binghamton and Elmira. 45 minutes has been shaved off.

Yesterday 12T ran wrong main (#2 Track) from Owego to Waverly. Signal maintainers were working all afternoon at CP-Waverly and for some reason at CP-Gang Mills today.
  by K4Pacific
 
FOR NEO,

A rail train will pick up the rail - the same ones that drop off welded rail. In this instance they will be picked up through the winch on the back end slid through the quarter mile long train. I hope that answers your questions. (I'm sure some good sectional rail will be saved for use in other applications around the region where it would be needed.)
  by scottychaos
 
So im curious..(im sure this has been discussed *somewhere*..but I dont recall reading much about it.)
If NS is planning for increased business on the Southern Tier main, and they have this "Patriot Corridor" thing in the works..
how is single-tracking more effieint than the original double-track mainline?
im not seeing it..

sure, its obviously cheaper to maintain..less trackage at all..im sure thats a factor in single-tracking..
but it seems it would slow down the railroad overall..the opposite of what you want if you are planning for increased traffic and if you want to be more competitive...unless somehow new signaling and dispatching methods are SO good that its the same, or better, than double track..

can anyone explain?

thanks,
Scot
  by johnpbarlow
 
So im curious..(im sure this has been discussed *somewhere*..but I dont recall reading much about it.)
If NS is planning for increased business on the Southern Tier main, and they have this "Patriot Corridor" thing in the works..
how is single-tracking more effieint than the original double-track mainline?
All 10 or so daily NS trains can now access 50mph trackage on the Buffalo-Bighamton main so transit time should be reduced. Plus NS has lots of high experience efficiently dispatching single track mainlines with 4X+ traffic (intermodal + manifest + coal), such as the Rathole line or The Atlanta - Alexandria line. I wonder if a bigger concern for NS re: traffic growth on the Tier is the lack of classification capacity to handle the new traffic.
  by K4Pacific
 
Amen, John! Classification capacity is the issue at this time at Elmira/Gang Mills. 50 mph track with sidings every 20 miles peovides fluidity for up to 24 trains a day. Then fleeting is another option beyon that.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
johnpbarlow wrote:
So im curious..(im sure this has been discussed *somewhere*..but I dont recall reading much about it.)
If NS is planning for increased business on the Southern Tier main, and they have this "Patriot Corridor" thing in the works..
how is single-tracking more effieint than the original double-track mainline?
All 10 or so daily NS trains can now access 50mph trackage on the Buffalo-Bighamton main so transit time should be reduced. Plus NS has lots of high experience efficiently dispatching single track mainlines with 4X+ traffic (intermodal + manifest + coal), such as the Rathole line or The Atlanta - Alexandria line. I wonder if a bigger concern for NS re: traffic growth on the Tier is the lack of classification capacity to handle the new traffic.
A couple of the things:

1. If the Tier is CTC (and I'm not sure whether it is or not), a single track will be more efficient than double track with block signalling.

2. Classification capacity on the Tier is an issue for local traffic in the Corning/Elmira area, owing to the spike in gas traffic. For traffic moving longer distances, NS already has excess classification capacity in Buffalo. SK Yard is nearly empty. Further east, NS is building another yard in the Schenectady area as part of the Patriot Corridor... so classification for non-local traffic on the Tier doesn't seem to be an issue, IMO.

***edited for spelling***
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by johnpbarlow
 
Classification capacity on the Tier is an issue for local traffic in the Corning/Elmira area, owing to the spike in gas traffic. For traffic moving longer distances, NS already has excess classiifcation capacity in Buffalo. SK Yard is nearly empty. Further east, NS is building another yard in the Schenectady area as part of the Patriot Corridor... so classification for non-local traffic on the Tier doesn't seem to be an issue, IMO
Good points but if local traffic headed for Gang Mills gets stuck on the single track mainline awaiting entrance to a clogged yard, then the overhead intermodal/auto traffic will also be delayed. Crew/power productivity/OT performance decline. It doesn't take much for a poorly choreographed single track RR to melt down. Fortunately, NS appears to know how to run a well oiled single track network based on years of experience with N&W and Southern routes.
  by K4Pacific
 
Currently, the A&P Industrial (old track one) holds Horseheads pick ups and set offs. In Gang Mills/Corning Baker St. And old track 2 west of CP- Erwin are available for overages. A very late 38T by Gang Mills at 1400 and LAL interchange in Painted Post had an SD70/GP40-2. That was different.
  by Matt Langworthy
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Fortunately, NS appears to know how to run a well oiled single track network based on years of experience with N&W and Southern routes.
Agreed. I watched NS pull off an excellent juggling act in the Hornell-West Cameron area during the summer MOW season.
Last edited by Matt Langworthy on Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by poppyl
 
Still a lot of unused real estate at Baker Street should the need ever arise. All that is needed is track and switches. For that matter, since NS has maintained the old double main ROW on the Corning Secondary, they could run a long siding along the Secondary north of Corning. So, IMO, NS has options if storage in the Elmira/Corning area becomes really critical.

Poppyl
  by johnpbarlow
 
Question re: state of QD crossovers in Binghamton. As part of the single tracking / conversion to CTC west of Binghamton, will NS be converting QD (and the switch to CP/NYSW track) from hand throw switches into a remotely controlled interlocking? I'm guessing that only the 4 Patriot Corridor intermodals and New England coal train use this but it would seem like this could improve transit times through the area. Also, is the stretch of track west of BD through QD and CP-Johnson to the start of single track at CP-217 considered double track with absolute signals (except for CP-Johnson)? Thanks.
  by K4Pacific
 
Here's one for you folks. Why would an Ithaca coal come up out of Harrisburg to Binghamton and then a Binghamton crew takes it to Elmira this morning run around the train to head east into Sayre. But that crew outlawed and the H12 crew which will have worked six 12s took to Sayre to yet run around it again to go to Ithaca? That's what I call a double run around. No WNYP. Could it have loaded on CSX in WV?
  by thannon
 
K4Pacific wrote:Here's one for you folks. Why would an Ithaca coal come up out of Harrisburg to Binghamton and then a Binghamton crew takes it to Elmira this morning run around the train to head east into Sayre. But that crew outlawed and the H12 crew which will have worked six 12s took to Sayre to yet run around it again to go to Ithaca? That's what I call a double run around. No WNYP. Could it have loaded on CSX in WV?
Figure why Friday the 526 went east through Waverly at 2247, ahead of 22K and hitting every stop signal around Waverly; then headed west again Saturday by Waverly at 0508, to evidently come back again....I'll guess to put the heaviest trains across the trackwork between 233-255 to see what fails.
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