Southern Tier - East of Binghamton

ANDY117 wrote:Does anyone have photos of the new signals at CP-SHOHOLA?

I wonder if they would be brand new, or salvaged G heads reclaimed from the elimination of main 1 over the hill. After all, the "new" signals at Lanesboro are the ex-Erie tri-lites from CP-Gulf Summit.

pumpers wrote:Well, with this speculation on traffic moving from the NY/NJ port area to New England, I looked up (and in some cases estimated) mileages:

NS:
NJ Port area to Binghamton (Erie): 210 miles
Binghamton to Mechanicville, NY (D&H) 125 miles
Mechanicville to Boston, (Boston and Maine , now Pan Am Southern): 195 miles
TOTAL: 530 miles

CSX:
NJ Port area to Selkirk (West Shore River Line): 135 miles
Selkirk to Boston: (Boston and Albany): 195 miles
Total: 330 miles

Truck: (I-95)
NJ Port Area to Boston: 220 miles

Numbers are approximate, but it seems a tough job for NS. JS

Don't forget about the passenger trains between HX and Port Jervis. This is another drawback of the Tier. Of course, I'm sure the NYS&W is an option, but the River Line doesn't have the grades the the NYS&W does. This will be interesting.

It really doesn't make sense for NS to run trains over the NYSW. They don't have trackage rights there. NS is just wealthy enough to add a siding or another track east of PJ if their freights are making money but not keeping a time schedule....

Also, if you believe their presentation (which has been right on the money so far), they show a route via Suffern.

You must not have chased any of the 614 trips.....talk about speed, there was no way to chase those trips, you had to chose a spot and wait....I have heard some stories about how fast some of those trips ran; but I will leave that for someone else to post....


Here's some video of the test run.
Tim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjuMS6v_1_4

I recall attempting to chase the steam excursions and the previous poster is right, but I think it's fair to remember that freight doesn't move like that, especially on the grades.

I rode Port Jervis to points east/south and back again today scouting for locations and was surprised by the speed of the train and the number of abandoned rights of way, though not shocked at all by the number of abandoned sidings and industries. That chemical plant in Harriman used to be good for a few dozen cars a week, if my memory serves me correctly and Wakefern was pretty big as well.

One thing is for certain... The tracks are in much better shape now than they were when that 614 was running. I guess it wasn't really Conrail's priority to ensure the quickest, smoothest ride for MTA commuters. The MTA lease was probably the best thing that could have happened for the condition of that line.

There are many holes in the PJ Line schedule that NS could take advantage of... And I'm convinced they could run east of Suffern at any point of the day without much problem... They may have to make a couple of stops, but good dispatching should get them through well enough.

I agree that NS and MTA could probably do it, but I'd think some extra double track would make things easier on the dispatcher, allowing for some fluctuation in schedule-keeping.

Indeed, the ride quality was wonderful. Smooth track with only one slowdown for some maintenance workers along the entire route.

What are the names/types of customers remaining on the Campbell Hall Cluster? By name I only know of 84 Lumber and the NYSW interchange. I see however that there are many more.

I guess we'll know things are soon to happen once NS starts having crews get qualified between Croxton and Binghamton. I wouldn'r suppose they'd give the traffic to NYSW crews to move. How long would it take to get crews qualified between Croxton and Binghamton?

Jim Rowland

I would definitely agree that more double track would be in everyone's best interest if this service goes as planned... but I do think they could get by with what they have now if they need to. Again, it all depends on how many trains per day they actually plan on running. I don't think anyone knows at this point. (if anyone does, I'd love to hear it. HA) If it turns into a significant number, I could see NS opening their wallets for some improvements. They just spent $140M on PAS tracks, yards, etc.

Century, I think they'll take their time to qualify crews on the line. If they did want to start service sooner, I guess they could put an NYSW guy in the cabs while their crews finish qualifying. I'm not sure how long the process takes.

It'll be a night railroad east of PJ. Fleeting eastbounds east of Binghamton in the early evening, westbounds out of the port as well. I was in San Antonio two weeks ago and saw again how to run a good single track (and eat some fine BBQ). New Braunfels on the old MKT - they just kept a comin' on. The stacks weren't super fast like everyone thinks. Just a nice easy gate at 40 mph to handle running meets. Then on the old SP side at Luling, TX. I saw a WB manifest doing 50+. Then, after BBQ, I saw an eastbound stack go into the siding and waited for two other westbounds - both stacks. So I saw four in an hour. It can and will be done. That's the UP.

NS runs them tight on the Rat Hole too.

SecaucusJunction wrote:One thing is for certain... The tracks are in much better shape now than they were when that 614 was running. I guess it wasn't really Conrail's priority to ensure the quickest, smoothest ride for MTA commuters. The MTA lease was probably the best thing that could have happened for the condition of that line.

There are many holes in the PJ Line schedule that NS could take advantage of... And I'm convinced they could run east of Suffern at any point of the day without much problem... They may have to make a couple of stops, but good dispatching should get them through well enough.

Back in the late 1990's/early 2000's, NJT Mainline Dispatcher was very willing to let freights move through short daylight windows between HX and Port Jervis. The usual "not an issue" westbound 25K was usually out of Croxton around 11pm-ish (I did catch a daylight once). But I do remember seeing not just the pre-merger freights in daylight windows, but NS freights as well. It was almost common to see Norfolk Southern symbols OIPI/PIOI, then became 46G/47G, then 971 (which got NS in trouble), in turn became a mix of H1G, H1T, H8J, H2A, and others. I'm sure IF the trains come, NJT Mainline will let them through the windows if they feel confident enough to let them through. They've let NYSW trains through countless times over the years....

I agree. In more recent detour moves, I've seen NJT dispatchers hold their own trains on sidings because the NS engineers told them they could give them a good move to a siding on the Tier.

I forgot about those crazy symbols they used to use on their trains... Do you remember why 971 got them in trouble? I don't recall that one.

I do remember when they tacked a few stacks destined for Buffalo on the end of the 47G after they got rid of 25K. That didn't last too long and that traffic either went to CSX or the roads...

Conrail was able to run trains through NJT's territory back in the day. I'm guessing NJT and NS can probably reach a mutually beneficial agreement on routing freight train through the same area.

So how should we play our cards??? Should we place our bets on seeing trains by January of 2011 or by the Spring/Summer of 2011?? What is the most viable hypothesis on a timeline for the first through freight east of PJ???

I would wait for one of three things: an bullitine order, a BLE bid, or a Rudy Husband news release from Roanoke in similar fashion as the Heartland Corridor was opened. This will be significant and won't be taken lightly.