Southcoast Rail

The other option, I suppose, to increase service would be to use equipment that could join or split mid-trip to serve multiple destinations. That way you could take (for example) a 10-car train from Boston, have 4 cars split off in Braintree for the Kingston line, then split the remaining 6 into three each for New Bedford/Fall River when they get to Middleboro. It would require a bit of rethinking of how crews operate, as well as a distinct pool of equipment for the Old Colony lines, but it might be cheaper than trying to add the second track.

That will never ever happen! First, that would require the crews to do the brake and other safety checks after they split which at a minimum takes 10 mins to fully do. Second, they can’t operate any sets less than 4 cars. Otherwise, they would be restricted to 30mph. Third, it’s just better to keep sets as they are and run them according to today’s barebone schedule. It’s much more cheaper and efficient to run them that way vs what you said. I don’t see them fully double tracking the mainline or have short Braintree turns anytime soon. That just won’t happen based on how keolis runs and maintains its infrastructure.

The obvious solution to the capacity issue on Old Colony for the long term is of course for Stoughton to be extended and also the triple track on the NEC to be extended from Readville to Canton Junction. Of course I have already mentioned how the NIMBYs in Easton and Raynham have been against this. But that is still the long term plan of the T.

But I still think the Old Colony needs some capacity improvements, which is possible. The challenge though is the Quincy Center bottleneck, and I don't know how you solve that.

In order for Quincy to be double tracked, they would have to close the mainline and fully rebuild the station so that the platform is inbetween the 2 tracks and old colony trains would have to terminate in Braintree. That wouldn’t be feasible. Idk how old colony mainline would ever be fully double tracked except for the numerous sidings on all branches.

If the City of Quincy wants to see more economic growth, perhaps the mayor can use some political capital to push for it. Of course it’s a T decision, but Quincy is one of the bigger cities in the state and has some political clout. Double tracking means more trains stopping at Quincy Center, which will take people to the new developments and corporate headquarters they want there.

I know the constraints around Wollaston but what about the trench through the center and the row around Quincy Adams and just south of it. No way your double tracking without highway changes and the redline flyover around independence Ave and Washington st on the Braintree/Quincy line. and the rt3 bridge would have to be rebuild too

Not saying it will ever happen. Saying it might make sense for the City of Quincy to push for it for better transit service.

This image was posted on the Framingham-Worcester thread for some reason. It shows an alternative routing for Southcoast Rail which creates a north to east leg of a new wye in Attleboro to allow trains to come off the NEC and then head to Taunton. It was a pretty clever idea and would use a utility ROW but received NIMBY opposition of course. This would have greatly simplified CSX operations in the area too.

Although Stoughton is the selected final solution, this could have been an easier and quicker way to initiate service at least for Phase 1.

The question I have to ask is would this have offered faster service to Fall River and New Bedford at least for Phase 1? Was running times even considered when the options were studied? What are the planned running times for Fall River and New Bedford on the circuitous Middleborough route?

Anyway here is the map showing the interesting Attleboro alternative for those interested:

Purportedly it was said at meetings on the South Coast a week or two ago that the run time would be 90 minutes. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening. I’d imagine it’s closer to two hours. Current run time to Middleborough is about an hour.

Maybe they want to run Express trains to SCR

Non-stop running time from South Station to Middleboro is 47 minutes at current track speeds to cover a bit more than 35 miles. Middleboro - New Bedford is roughly another 26 miles; Middleboro - Fall River is roughly another 24 miles. Is a 90-minute running time possible? Yes. Likely?

From the 2018 DSEIR:


Other pertinent facts:

• Boston - Middleborough is 34.5 miles
• Middleborough - Fall River is 21.1 miles
• Middleborough - New Bedford is 25.5 miles
• Current Boston-M/L distance is 35.0 miles and scheduled for 58 to 67 minutes depending on padding.
• Track speed will be 79 mph except sidings and where geometry (including south of Church Street) does not allow.

There are only two intermediate stations between Middleborough and each terminal; the only major restricted curves will be Cotley Junction (near a station anyway) and Myricks Junction. Middleborough-Fall River in 30 minutes would average 42 mph in that segment; Middleborough-New Bedford would be 51 mph. The former might be nearly doable - Providence trains average 44 mph between 128 and Attleboro with similar stop spacing, though slightly higher top speed and no major curves.

I will guess actual running times will be about 35 minutes Middleborough-Fall River and 40 minutes Middleborough-New Bedford (not including padding). If Boston-Middleborough is an hour, then that's 95 and 100 minutes end to end. A bit of spit and polish might get it down to 55 minutes, which would give 90 and 95 minutes end to end.

tl;dr: 95-100 minutes is more likely, but 90 minutes might be doable for Fall River.

MBTAVideoClips wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:19 am Maybe they want to run Express trains to SCR

Again, there is no capacity in Dorchester/Quincy to run “express” trains for SCR. And the T has said all initial SCR trains will be extensions of Middleborough trains.

I have pulled up the middleboro existing schedule and I conclude based on the available evidence that phase 1, with the existing middleboro schedule, is going to be a failure to attract many new riders. The current schedule would allow each branch to be served about every hour and a half to 2 hours while peak times could be closer to an hour per branch. Will have to see how it plays out when the time comes, but phase 2 would have been better for frequency. Phase 2 could have allowed express trains to serve the south coast branches, but phase 1 can’t offer more than the existing middleboro slots. I don’t know how else to better explain my opinion.

I'm going to repeat my suggestion from earlier - join and split trains at Middleboro, using two 4-car sets. Adding 10 minutes to the overall trip will be worth it to allow 30-minute frequencies instead of 60-minute ones at peak times. The B&M used to combine and split commuter runs all the time using RDCs (under more restrictive union rules than exist today) - there's no reason we can't do that today, even with the current equipment. Make every slot coming out of Boston-Braintree work double. If you want to get even more daring, make each train leaving Boston a triple-draft of 4-car sets, drop the last one in Braintree to run to Kingston, then split the remaining two in Middleboro. That gets you 20-minute peak frequencies all around in both directions.