Some Danbury (Conn) Branch questions

Posted this over in the MNR forum, too, but since it probably predates Metro-North it was suggested I post over here as well.

Anyway, my dad passed a couple of years ago, and I've started trying to put some memories down on paper for the family. As part of it I'm trying to pinpoint the date of some early childhood memories concerning the Danbury (since we moved to Redding when I was 1 and he commuted to NY on it).

First, when was welded rail installed on the branch? I'm pretty sure I remember the car wheels banging on stick rail as a little kid. I also have a recollection of seeing a work train at West Redding behind a Conrail-blue ALCO RS (maybe an RS3?) & my dad telling me they were putting in "new tracks" (and incidentally telling me that the locomotive was an ALCO and there weren't many like that around anymore). Could that have been the cwr installation or just ordinary maintenance?

Second, equipment. Two things there. One, I remember sitting in a car on a GCT through train that had tables between the seats. Not a diner, obviously, but what was it? Did the old bar cars have tables? Second, and this doesn't seem possible, but did any rolling stock with open windows survive into the mid-'70s? I remember being on a train with my dad, heading into the curve off the main at South Norwalk, and having hot August air blowing on us and the noise of the wheels on the rails being really loud. 'Course its possible that the A/C might just have been busted and the end doors were propped open.

For reference, I'm 35, and the general time period (obviously I'm trying to narrow it down) is 1976-84.

Ridgefielder wrote:First, when was welded rail installed on the branch?

It could have been an improvement done after Metro-North/CDOT took over from Conrail in 1983. Could have been scheduled as early as 1981.

Second, equipment. Two things there. One, I remember sitting in a car on a GCT through train that had tables between the seats.

Those were bar cars. I'm (nearly) the same age as you, and I remember asking my dad what those cars were, as I could see the tables as we walked along the platform in GCT. My dad called them "Subscription Cars," and he said "for an extra couple of bucks, you get to sit at a table." These also could have been parlor cars, too. If I understood by dad's explanation correctly, there were still a few "Subscription" cars where you paid an extra fare and got your own seat in a car closed off to other commuters. But I thought that service went out in the early 1970s. I know bar cars and tavern cars lasted until nearly the mid-1980s, as the initial order of Shoreliner coaches to replace those older cars didn't arrive until 1984, and continued through the end of the decade. True bar car and tavern cars were most likely gone by 1985-1987 or so... I know the last of the "heritage" equipment was definitely off the rails by 1990.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:

Second, equipment. Two things there. One, I remember sitting in a car on a GCT through train that had tables between the seats.

Those were bar cars. I'm (nearly) the same age as you, and I remember asking my dad what those cars were, as I could see the tables as we walked along the platform in GCT. My dad called them "Subscription Cars," and he said "for an extra couple of bucks, you get to sit at a table." These also could have been parlor cars, too. If I understood by dad's explanation correctly, there were still a few "Subscription" cars where you paid an extra fare and got your own seat in a car closed off to other commuters. But I thought that service went out in the early 1970s. I know bar cars and tavern cars lasted until nearly the mid-1980s, as the initial order of Shoreliner coaches to replace those older cars didn't arrive until 1984, and continued through the end of the decade. True bar car and tavern cars were most likely gone by 1985-1987 or so... I know the last of the "heritage" equipment was definitely off the rails by 1990.

-otto-

That's the thing, though-- I don't think it was a bar car, b/c I remember being in it at the age of maybe 4, on an afternoon, and with the whole family; I doubt my dad would have let me ride in a bar car at that age, certainly not with my mom around. Especially since I'm sure smoking was allowed in the bar cars at that point in time.

Ridgefielder wrote:[That's the thing, though-- I don't think it was a bar car, b/c I remember being in it at the age of maybe 4, on an afternoon, and with the whole family; I doubt my dad would have let me ride in a bar car at that age, certainly not with my mom around. Especially since I'm sure smoking was allowed in the bar cars at that point in time.

I answered the question to the best of my ability. There were "traditional" bar cars in service at that time, including "tavern-lounges" and parlor cars. I vividly remember the equipment you are describing, and I even had the same reaction seeing the tables through the windows that you did. Unless there was some "table car" that I'm not aware of...

Even back in the New Haven Railroad days train 144 had a dining car to Pittsfield. After the train north of Danbury was
downgraded to a single Budd Car, train 144 still had the same car and it functioned as a bar car to Danbury except on Friday
when it went through to Pittsfield. The car involved for a long time was a HW dining car called "Narrows Light". When the
railroad withdrew the "Narrows Light" from this job they substituted a grill car as a bar car. Eventually a different car was
assigned but I don't remember what happened after that. I might have some make up material from around the end of the
New Haven that would show this train and what equipment was used.
The above cars returned to New York on train 141 which ran after the AM rush hour was over with.
Noel Weaver