Snow Operations

What is the steel atop the cab designed to do ? I have seen this in pictures of several snow operation Choo Choo's.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=90458

Knock the icicles off the...??? I dont know, but i wish that was me on there.

Its to break icicles off the insides of tunnels. I'm used to seeing pictures like that here in Canada. http://www.mountainrailway.com/Roster%2 ... 201426.htm

Hi All,

Good, logical explanation. Something like the reason electric engines raise BOTH pantographs in weather like that. The lead pantograph is an ice scraper.

i've always wondered that myself. Good to know now. But here's another question, why is that caboose on the rear so thin?

Because its not a caboose, its a flanger. There is a set of blades mounted on the underside of the car that can be raised and lowered. These blades are used to remove snow and ice from in between the rails.

cool. thanks for that info. Of all the pics i've seen i've never seen the blades.

(Points to 2spot and UPRR engineer while excitedly and rapidly saying "Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!")

You're both right. (Yes, UPRR engineer gets credit for noting the breaking of icicles.)

Unit 604 has that device attached to the cab that vaguely looks like something that was on use on the Southern Pacific. Wouldn't ya know, I did a quick roster check on Utah Rails index for the UP ( http://utahrails.net/all-time/current-index.php ) and found that 604, indeed, is part of the former SP fleet.

As 2spot noted, they were used to knock icicles off of tunnels, bridges, signal masts... anything upon which an icicle could form, hang from and cause damage to equipment.

My 20 yen on the subject.

Note: Edited once by Komachi @ 6:52pm CST on 12/1/06 to get the Utah Rails URL to work.

metman499 wrote:Because its not a caboose, its a flanger. There is a set of blades mounted on the underside of the car that can be raised and lowered. These blades are used to remove snow and ice from in between the rails.

Thanks for answering todays next question !!!!

Does the Flangers plow have wheels to ride the rails?

How can they determine where the crossings begin and end with all the snow blowing around?

No wheels to ride the rails. The blades are narrower than the rails. As for raising and lowering there are signs along some rights-of-way for flangers and plows and I am sure the operator is very familiar with where all of the switches and road crossings and anything else that could mess up a blade are.

I remember during the winter of 1978 - 79 we had snow on the property, and it was so deep that we could not ride the stairs while transiting the yard (One tester foolisly did and complained of the hard packed snow hitting his heels). The cutout created by the snow plows, matched the snow plows profile including the snow that the Flanger was created to remove.

My question is if the plowed area is deeper than the height of the flanger underframe above the rail, where does the snow .... Go?

The front of the flanger has a "V" shaped plow, that lowers between the rails, but not below the height of the rail head. This first pushes the snow, (or ballast) from the center of the rails, towards the field sides. The wings are next, and some are notched, to actually plow below the level of the railhead. The wings distribute this plowed snow, along with snow from the outside of the rails, to the outer end of the wings. (depends on how far they are opened, to how far the snow is moved) Used to be, crossings had a sign, with the letter "F" on each side of it, in snow territory. This was the warning, for flanger operators, to raise the plow, and the wings. After flanging/plowing, the snow is packed tight, higher than the level of the railhead, by a few inches, and the fields are plowed (hopefully) wider than the steps, of the locos that work in the territory. The things are somewhat light, and do derail with frequency that seems to be planned to keep the guys on the crew, from getting too warm, inside the flanger, or pushers used to move them.

The exact profile of the flanger blade varies. I don't doubt GA's description but those which I'm familiar with do extend below the height of the railhead. This is why they need to be raised when flanging at turnouts, guardrails, crossings, etc. Otherwise they can be torn off the car, and possibly tear up the track as well.

One of the reasons for flanging is to keep the snow below the level of the gearcase covers on the locos. As the snow gets packed more tightly and maybe thaws and re-freezes it can get like concrete. If not removed it can bash in the bottom of the gearcase, causing it to hit the gear teeth. Result - a hole in the gearcase, loss of crater compound which lubricates the gear teeth - and eventually a trip to the shop for a traction motor changeout.

The signs used as warnings to the operators vary widely. I've seen "F" as GA mentions, yellow triangles with a black dot, a metal blade on a pole which resembles a hockey stick stuck in the ground, a cross-piece resembling a letter "T", and several others.

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: The front of the flanger has a "V" shaped plow, that lowers between the rails, but not below the height of the rail head. This first pushes the snow, (or ballast) from the center of the rails, towards the field sides. The wings are next, and some are notched, to actually plow below the level of the railhead. The wings distribute this plowed snow, along with snow from the outside of the rails, to the outer end of the wings. (depends on how far they are opened, to how far the snow is moved) Used to be, crossings had a sign, with the letter "F" on each side of it, in snow territory. This was the warning, for flanger operators, to raise the plow, and the wings. After flanging/plowing, the snow is packed tight, higher than the level of the railhead, by a few inches, and the fields are plowed (hopefully) wider than the steps, of the locos that work in the territory. The things are somewhat light, and do derail with frequency that seems to be planned to keep the guys on the crew, from getting too warm, inside the flanger, or pushers used to move them.

Thanks, for the clear description. Is the Flanger a single direction unit?
I can't tell from this pic.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=63632

Aji-tater wrote:The exact profile of the flanger blade varies. I don't doubt GA's description but those which I'm familiar with do extend below the height of the railhead. This is why they need to be raised when flanging at turnouts, guardrails, crossings, etc. Otherwise they can be torn off the car, and possibly tear up the track as well.

One of the reasons for flanging is to keep the snow below the level of the gearcase covers on the locos. As the snow gets packed more tightly and maybe thaws and re-freezes it can get like concrete. If not removed it can bash in the bottom of the gearcase, causing it to hit the gear teeth. Result - a hole in the gearcase, loss of crater compound which lubricates the gear teeth - and eventually a trip to the shop for a traction motor changeout.

The signs used as warnings to the operators vary widely. I've seen "F" as GA mentions, yellow triangles with a black dot, a metal blade on a pole which resembles a hockey stick stuck in the ground, a cross-piece resembling a letter "T", and several others.

Thanks !!!

I have always wondered why some roads ordered armor plated gear case & traction motors bottoms!

"One of the reasons for flanging is to keep the snow below the level of the gearcase covers on the locos. As the snow gets packed more tightly and maybe thaws and re-freezes it can get like concrete. If not removed it can bash in the bottom of the gearcase, causing it to hit the gear teeth. Result - a hole in the gearcase, loss of crater compound which lubricates the gear teeth - and eventually a trip to the shop for a traction motor changeout.

Each flanger blade is for use only in one direction. However some flangers have two blades, one facing each direction.