• Siemens to manufacture 83 Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Anthony
 
Given how well they've held up over the years, Amtrak should hold onto at least 200 of the Amfleet I's as surge capacity fleet, and for route expansions in the east. Such expansions I would like to see include a daily Cardinal, a revived Broadway Limited via it's original PRR route across Ohio and Indiana, a revived Three Rivers on it's original B&O route parallel to the Broadway Limited. A Pennsylvanian extension to Chicago via Cleveland, Toledo, and Detroit, an IND - KCY section of a daily Cardinal, and a DFW section of the Crescent.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Corner bet: on Jan 1, 2031, there will be an Amfleet I running somewhere in Amtrak revenue service.
eolesen wrote:I'll make a parley - not only will some be in Amtraks roster, but some will be in commuter service as well somewhere in the US...
Anthony wrote:Given how well they've held up over the years, Amtrak should hold onto at least 200 of the Amfleet I's as surge capacity fleet, and for route expansions in the east. Such expansions I would like to see include a daily Cardinal, a revived Broadway Limited via it's original PRR route across Ohio and Indiana, a revived Three Rivers on it's original B&O route parallel to the Broadway Limited. A Pennsylvanian extension to Chicago via Cleveland, Toledo, and Detroit, an IND - KCY section of a daily Cardinal, and a DFW section of the Crescent.
Now you're getting the idea. With all the grandiose plans for more corridor service, you're going to need equipment for it. With the Venture trainsets and ALC-42E, you free up connecting diesel engines: 2 off the Pennsy, Adirondack, Ethan Allen Express, Maple Leaf, and Vermonter each, and another 6 off the Empire Service. That's 16 engines. Add in, what, how many Amfleet I/II's being replaced? And you got a decent corridor service.

Now if you go in and get a few lines electrified, with a sweet deal on turning some ACS-64's into freight engines, you got a compelling offer for various companies.
  by BandA
 
realtype wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:47 pm- I understand using the ALC-42E dual modes to eliminate the engine switch at WAS for trains traveling beyond the NEC to the South and New England, but don't see the logic at all in retiring the ACS-64 for the many NEC-only NE Regional and Keystone trips.
yup

- ...Piedmont...Also since the state of NC owns the current equipment are they funding the replacements?
Amtrak would have to convince NC to fund it, so I guess they are assuming NC would want to, or they jack up the maintenance costs to force them
- How realistic is MBTA electrification?
It could possibly happen in a reasonable timeframe for the NEC and/or Fairmont Line; As discussed in other threads, would require substation expansions, wiring station tracks, new MBTA service facility on the south-side, new MBTA train storage, negotiation with Amtrak on cost to use their catenary
Also, like Caltrain, it looks like they want to convert to an "S-Bahn" type regional rail model and would prefer EMUs.
They've said stuff like that but it doesn't make much sense. Unless they plan to use better technology to couple/decouple trains/do brake tests they are better off sticking with push-pull
- I think the Amfleets will end up scrapped immediately upon retirement.
Are they metal fatigued? Should refurbish & use in commuter service until the metal starts to crack and the wheels fall off. The MBTA and WMATA have experience with wheel problems :wink: so they should be able to handle it :wink:
  by electricron
 
realtype wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:47 pm- I understand using the ALC-42E dual modes to eliminate the engine switch at WAS for trains traveling beyond the NEC to the South and New England, but don't see the logic at all in retiring the ACS-64 for the many NEC-only NE Regional and Keystone trips.
Amtrak wants as many new locomotives they can convince the Biden administration to buy while the checkbooks are open. That means buying more ALC-42E locomotives as possible, and so Biden will be able to state he is buying them an entirely new fleet of rolling stock. I agree, they really do not need to replace as many ACS-64s as they will be, but that is not what the Biden administration wishes to publicize.
  by John_Perkowski
 
If Amtrak wants to store 200 cars, then they need to lease or buy covered storage trackage in California or Arizona, where there will be less deterioration due to wet and cold weather.

Let’s see, 200 cars at 85’ over the buffers = 17,000 track feet

Build a shed for 20 car strings (10 tracks) with a 5’ spacing between cars for mechanical department equipment, add a 50’ wide warehouse and shop space, it’ll be around 1720’ long and 200’ wide, or 340,000 sq ft.

Why a shed? Vandalism. It’s that simple
  by electricron
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:20 pm Corner bet: on Jan 1, 2031, there will be an Amfleet I running somewhere in Amtrak revenue service.
Don't expect to be around to either collect or pay up.
Maybe as a special maintenance of way car, business car, or axle count cars, but I doubt they will be in "revenue" service under Amtrak?

Amfleet 1 cars in service today = 456
Amfleet 2 cars in service today = 138
Horizon cars in service today = 81
Subtotal of vintage Amfleet and Horizon cars = 675 cars
Venture cars available for service by 2031 ( as projected) = 137 (Midwest and California) + 552 (new) = 689 cars
And there are options for another 130 more trainsets with between 5 and 9 cars in length.
I'm pretty sure a few of these optional trainsets could be used to replace the Amfleet 2 cars in the future.
IMHO, Amtrak is not going to need any used Amfleet 1 cars at all in 2031, short of a major delay in building Venture cars by Siemens.
  by Tom V
 
electricron wrote:
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:20 pm Corner bet: on Jan 1, 2031, there will be an Amfleet I running somewhere in Amtrak revenue service.
Don't expect to be around to either collect or pay up.
Maybe as a special maintenance of way car, business car, or axle count cars, but I doubt they will be in "revenue" service under Amtrak?

Amfleet 1 cars in service today = 456
Amfleet 2 cars in service today = 138
Horizon cars in service today = 81
Subtotal of vintage Amfleet and Horizon cars = 675 cars
Venture cars available for service by 2031 ( as projected) = 137 (Midwest and California) + 552 (new) = 689 cars
And there are options for another 130 more trainsets with between 5 and 9 cars in length.
I'm pretty sure a few of these optional trainsets could be used to replace the Amfleet 2 cars in the future.
IMHO, Amtrak is not going to need any used Amfleet 1 cars at all in 2031, short of a major delay in building Venture cars by Siemens.
So the venture cars will be an almost one for one replacement of current fleet, plus options for the Amfleet IIs. Where’s the equipment for the new Amtrak Connect corridors?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
A side note; Ron notes 456 A-I's remain in service.

492 were delivered '75-'77.

That means 36 cars have been lost, or 7.3% of the fleet over forty seven years; that sure to me is a testament of how well engineered and built they are.

Now regarding Mr. Volpini's comment, first, how many routes within that Connect 21 "coloring book" are going to develop? Every other agency in town hit Joe's administration with similar in an effort to gain favor. All about as meaningful as 75% of the US Mail I receive (wonder why I open it standing right next to a trash barrel?).

If equipment is to be ordered to replace the A-II's, hopefully there will be enough "smarts" to design such to be readily convertible to Short Distance configurations. That would provide equipment for any additional Short Distance routes that may come to pass.

Need to replace Superliners (hardly as fortunate with retention as Amfleet)? "Uh, let's not go there" with me.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
John_Perkowski wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:27 pm If Amtrak wants to store 200 cars, then they need to lease or buy covered storage trackage in California or Arizona, where there will be less deterioration due to wet and cold weather.
Colonel, why is it then that CRAF aircraft can "snooze under the stars" without hangars. If they can be adequately secured, why would stored indefinitely retired Amtrak equipment be any different?
  by pbj123
 
One suggestion from someone who worked on Amfleet 1's through too many winters. If they keep some of them, use them down south. In winter, the vestibules looked like Dr . Zhivago's country cottage. That snow buildup infiltrated into the coaches. The remediation to make it safe, de-icers, made a mess.
  by Greg Moore
 
I agree, eventually all the Amfleet Is will eventually become razor blades.
But I've advocated for awhile a 2:1 replacement for the first 100-200 or so.

i.e for every 2 new cars that come in, retire the worst Amfleet. Do so until you have the last 100-200 "best" Amfleets. Use these to expand service and then eventually replace them too.

I'm optimistic. It's more than just the Biden administration. I think we're seeing a generational change in travel patterns and a Amtrak will be part of that.
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
For every ICT that enters revenue service and performs well, that will translate to knowing when to phase out the Amfleet Is. They may still ride fine but we don't know how they might perform four years from now when they start getting phased into service in the Northeast. It will be a slow process for these ICTs to get put into service and we could probably see Amfleet Is and Genesis units still in service well into the 2020s. The Ex-Metroliner Cab Cars could probably be the first Amfleet shell cars to be phased out first given the fact that they have been having a lot of reliability issues. For a car that's probably over 50 years old, those Ex-Metroliner Cab Cars have performed fine.
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