• Siemens to manufacture 83 Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by Ridgefielder
 
frequentflyer wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:11 pm
electricron wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:14 am How a thread about Siemens Venture rolling stock and Siemens Charger locomotives turned into a conversation about GE and EMD locomotives at Grand Central Station is beyond me, but here it is. :( :( :(

Does every thread have to turn into a conversation about what was 50 years ago?
Thank you.
Looping back onto topic but keeping on the subject of paint schemes: will the new equipment have fluted stainless steel sheathing or will it be painted?
  by NaugyRR
 
I'd like to see ones that end up on the Empire Corridor get the blue and black scheme the late Turbo's had. I always thought that it was a very attractive scheme.
  by west point
 
Here is a thought for discussion.
1. Can we assume that Amtrak will recertify all AM-2s and V-1s to 125 MPH for operation with the new dual mode locos ? With the new Siemens NEC trains certified to at least 125 MAX will keep the NEC fluid and in keeping with C-2035 statements ? The duals will need that new top speed to somewhat keep out of the way of Siemens and the new Acela-2s.
2. For operation of the new dual modes they will also need to be certified to 125 which requires gearing for 125 + 10% 12.5 + 3 -4 overlap. === ~140 MH gearing. I use the P-42 103 MAX as 90 + 9 + 4 = 103 as a template..
2a. That gearing will reduce the tractive effort available on diesel off CAT about ~30%.
3. Those speeds for the short distances that can allow 125 at present should be enough to allow scheduling to tighten 10 - 15 minutes NYP <> WASH.
4. If those dual modes continue past WASH with that 140 gearing how much slower accelerations will the Silvers, Crescent and Cardinal have ? Will that also slow them on grades except for Silvers and Palmetto.? If the Roanoke train just has one loco as it does now I for see a much slower climb especially to ROA.
5. Saving time with the loco change at WASH would seem IMO to actually slow these trains total time down ?
6. This may also apply to the Vermonter and its lack of change at New Haven.
7. The use of Duals "may" not be a problem for NECs to Richmond, Norfolk, Newport News. However leaving Main Street station going up the hill ???

EDIT. At least west coast locos are to be straight diesel for immediate future so probably the 103 certification ?
  by BandA
 
Generally, it is cheaper at least in the short-mid term to adapt the equipment to the infrastructure rather than re-do the infrastructure (i.e. hang more wire).

Perhaps Acella-2's will eventually displace the Regionals, which would surplus those electric locomotives to Commuter Rail railroads.

Maybe this regenerative-braking is enough to justify the battery tender they are talking about. Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
  by eolesen
 
Dunno. Amtrak has an opportunity to have a new fleet that can be utilized across the system. It's one thing to do that on equipment bought by state's for their own services, but I hope they keep the pooled equipment standardized and don't mess that up with custom regionalized branding like we've seen with the Cascades and Surfliner.
  by eolesen
 
BandA wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.

A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.

Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
  by nkloudon
 
Each Christmas I travel form New Jersey to New Hampshire for family celebration. I'm 81 years old. Any chance the new equipment will be operating on the Vermonter while I'm still around? I really look forward to bigger windows. (I've given up on ever Amtracking to Scranton)
  by BandA
 
eolesen wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:29 am
BandA wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.

A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.

Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
The regenerative braking is the thing. On my recent gasoline automobile, RIP, my WAG is at least 20% of the energy got used up in the braking system.
  by lordsigma12345
 
west point wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:59 amIf those dual modes continue past WASH with that 140 gearing how much slower accelerations will the Silvers, Crescent and Cardinal have ?
I think they’ve already said they won’t on those routes. Palmetto will run with this new equipment but the overnight long distance trains will continue with Siemens sprinters/switch to alc42 at WAS.
  by MattW
 
The long distance trains don't exactly need breakneck start-stop acceleration/deceleration. The P42s aren't remotely fast from a start and apparently load like a sleepy walrus. If anything, the new equipment will accelerate the same trains a whole lot faster due to faster loading and modern AC traction.
  by David Benton
 
BandA wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:55 pm
eolesen wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:29 am
BandA wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.

A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.

Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
The regenerative braking is the thing. On my recent gasoline automobile, RIP, my WAG is at least 20% of the energy got used up in the braking system.
Brake wear as well. Probably more relevant in a dmu type setup , rather than a loco/ car trainset. speaking of which , Anderson's mention of DMU's for Amtrak appears to have gone with him??? Unless these trainsets were what he had in mind ???
  by STrRedWolf
 
David Benton wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:37 pm Brake wear as well. Probably more relevant in a dmu type setup , rather than a loco/ car trainset. speaking of which , Anderson's mention of DMU's for Amtrak appears to have gone with him??? Unless these trainsets were what he had in mind ???
Unless what we think of DMUs is old-fashioned and new DMUs define "unit" as "the entire consist".
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