• Siemens to manufacture 83 Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Alphaboi
 
eolesen wrote:I'd think the use of trainset is semantics.

This looks like a combined order for power, coaches, food service and maybe even full or partial bag cars.

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Agreed. "Trainset" is essentially being used as a euphemism for consist. Amtrak can still vary the length depending on route and demand fluctuations. Full baggage cars seem unnecessary; just design the coaches to maximize carry-on storage and maybe a space for bikes & oversized items in the cafe car. Or order more bag-dorms; Amtrak has too many baggage cars and not enough bad-dorms.

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  by Gilbert B Norman
 
During my six overseas trips ('14-'19) to Salzburg, I never observed a Rail Jet consist of other than seven cars. That's hardly saying there is never a different consist; just I never observed - and I wasn't over there to railfan.

The RJ set consist comprised a Control Car which had First Class Compartment for four, and FC seats, an FC car, an FC/Food Svc car, and three Second Class cars.

Incidentially, the food service is provided by an outside contractor using refrigeraated meals and convection ovens to heat. Metal flat and glassware, but plastic plates. They don't "give 'em away".

My first three years there (took day trips from Salzburg) the food and service was darned good and worth their King's Ransom. However then OBB changed contractors and......(you know how that story ends).
  by CraigDK
 
According to the press release we know that 83 trainsets are to replace the Amfleet I, Metroliner Cabs, and the Cascade fleet.

If we start from there we can probably arrive at that number of individual cars being order. Using the numbers from On-track-On-line (I assume these are fairly accurate), there are 456 Amfleet Is and 15 Metroliner Cabs. Assuming the Cascade fleet means just the remaining Talgos, I would approximate (giving the difference in length) another 12 to 14 cars. In total, 483 or 485 cars. If the "train-sets" are 6 cars a set, that would mean the order would be for 498 cars. 498 cars to replace 483 or 485 cars seems reasonable.

Assuming that Amtrak wants to retire the remaining F40 cabbages as well, reasonable giving their age, then it would be 498 cars to replace 501 or 503 cars.

So, I would suggest that each train-set is 6 cars, but probably easily reconfigurable to 4 or 8 car sets as needed.
  by CraigDK
 
KTHW wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:15 am Is the thinking that these “train sets” will just be coaches and that there will be an accompanying Dual Mode engine order to follow up on this?

I agree with earlier comments that Amtrak has too many new engines for this to be an MU order.
I would assume that the "train sets" are coaches and food service cars.
  by Greg Moore
 
CraigDK wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:06 am According to the press release we know that 83 trainsets are to replace the Amfleet I, Metroliner Cabs, and the Cascade fleet.

If we start from there we can probably arrive at that number of individual cars being order. Using the numbers from On-track-On-line (I assume these are fairly accurate), there are 456 Amfleet Is and 15 Metroliner Cabs. Assuming the Cascade fleet means just the remaining Talgos, I would approximate (giving the difference in length) another 12 to 14 cars. In total, 483 or 485 cars. If the "train-sets" are 6 cars a set, that would mean the order would be for 498 cars. 498 cars to replace 483 or 485 cars seems reasonable.

Assuming that Amtrak wants to retire the remaining F40 cabbages as well, reasonable giving their age, then it would be 498 cars to replace 501 or 503 cars.

So, I would suggest that each train-set is 6 cars, but probably easily reconfigurable to 4 or 8 car sets as needed.
I like the math, but if Amtrak is serious about expansion, then 498 (let's call it 500) won't be enough.
But, again, if they start to replace initially say 2:1 (every 2 new cars, the oldest, most worn out car gets retired) then for awhile they'll be able to expand the fleet.

But again... we need more details.
  by Greg Moore
 
Also, based on an earlier post and some digging, my guess is we'll see something much the like:

Venture trainsets Brightline is using.

They even show an example 6 car setup, complete with cab-car.

More on it here too: https://www.mobility.siemens.com/us/en/ ... nsets.html
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Safe assumption that rather than the nicely contoured RailJet control cars, Amtrak will have a "Duckbill Platypus" in its place :P

I think the CD's Blue livery far exceeds that of the OBB. I rode from Graz to Vienna over the Simmering Pass, that they are now digging a 27 klick tunnel under.

Now to my "Ugly American" story.

To share with a really nice English-Speaking "thirtysomething" Polish gal I was seated with, I ordered a "half" of a Gruner Veltliner that she had never had before ("Dear, if I could, I'd bring a case back with me to The States"). The Czech Attendant fetched and came back with the wine and presented me with a bill for 425 "who knows what". I looked at it and let loose with "What is this, Czechoslovakian funny money?".

That wasn't nice, Mr. Norman.

The Attendant then said, sort of scolding (I deserved it) " Sir, that is 450 Czech Koruna, or about €13 Euros and $15 US".

Well, she put me in my place - and got a Kc200 tip for my rudeness.
  by frequentflyer
 
When did Siemens start marketing this as "Venture" trainsets? Viaggio must too hard for Americans to pronounce. And are we saying a Venture consist being pulled by a new type of locomotive not unveiled yet? One that can run under the wire and not down to Richmond.
  by eolesen
 
It was easy enough to keep Viaggio when it was a couple one-off orders. But now with states, Amtrak and VIA having placed significant numbers, I'll guess Venture is intended to reflect North America specs and not further confuse people with the Viaggio versions used elsewhere in the world.

Tilting screams "higher overhead costs with maintenance of a complex mechanism for very little return on investment" to me...
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
I’m very happy to hear that Amtrak chose Siemens to build the trainsets! I’m also not surprised given the fact that many passenger railroads are ordering new equipment from Siemens. I’m sure that Amtrak will want to piggyback off of VIA Rail for what is being ordered for the corridor routes in Canada. Don’t be surprised if the F40 cabbage cars get retired as well. They are way up there in age, just like the Amfleets and Ex-Metroliner cab cars.
  by Ridgefielder
 
njtmnrrbuff wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:28 am I’m very happy to hear that Amtrak chose Siemens to build the trainsets! I’m also not surprised given the fact that many passenger railroads are ordering new equipment from Siemens. I’m sure that Amtrak will want to piggyback off of VIA Rail for what is being ordered for the corridor routes in Canada. Don’t be surprised if the F40 cabbage cars get retired as well. They are way up there in age, just like the Amfleets and Ex-Metroliner cab cars.
The Metroliners started revenue service in 1969 and the Amfleet I's in 1975. They're older now than probably any of the equipment that Amtrak assumed from the legacy roads on startup in 1971-- 46-year-old equipment at the time would have a build date in the mid-1920's(!) It's astonishing, and a testimony to the Budd build quality, that they're still going strong.
  by CraigDK
 
Greg Moore wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:36 am I like the math, but if Amtrak is serious about expansion, then 498 (let's call it 500) won't be enough.
But, again, if they start to replace initially say 2:1 (every 2 new cars, the oldest, most worn out car gets retired) then for awhile they'll be able to expand the fleet.

But again... we need more details.
Yes, more details would be nice. But then we wouldn't be able to speculate about them!

The numbers I came up basically assume the idea of a one for one replacement, or close to it. That said, whatever the actually number is, it would probably be safe to assume that there will be a significant number of options as well.
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Hopefully Amtrak will order enough replacement coaches that there will be enough to provide extra capacity for the Thanksgiving rush hour, rather than having to used leased equipment from MARC. Hopefully, there will be enough cars to add a third car on all of the 400 series shuttle trains that run up and down the Springfield Line.