• Siemens to manufacture 83 Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Anyone else remember the Cadillac Cimarron?

GM came out with it at, first, a time when GM didn't know how to build a car (that was when I said Adios to Buick) and, second, a time when fuel economy was as much the watchword as is carbon emission today.

It was very simply a Chevy Cavalier with Caddy labels on it.

So how does this all relate to the subject at hand?

I think Amtrak and Siemens are simply "making a splash" with this Battery powered locomotive. "It looks good" to the likes of The Squad, Bernie, and Liz that it's being developed.

The only place on the Amtrak system where it could prove worthwhile would be to access Penn from the Hudson Line (Empire Service). Possibly Metro North charges Amtrak too much for "juice", but beyond that, just show.

Don't be surprised if this Battery-Electric gets no further than a drawing board (whoops, guess that's a computer screen nowadays).
  by MattW
 
eolesen wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:31 am Seems like Amtrak is making a bet with the dual modes that electricity won't always be the cheap power source. Biomass and algae based diesel may eventually be cheaper, and you can't depend on a single energy source in a multistate network.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
PHLSpecial wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:44 am The problem with dual mode is the trains are heavier, therefore it's less fuel efficient? Now I don't know if Amtrak will maintain the wires on the NEC and just wires into Penn Station. I agree with the user above we are going to have slower trains
What??? Why would ANYONE think Amtrak is looking to get rid of electric power? There is ZERO evidence of this given that the trains they've said will likely get the dual modes, wouldn't be nearly enough to displace the ACS-64s. Not only that, but the Acela II hasn't been cancelled or anything, it's most definitely NOT a dual mode and thus "just wires into Penn Station" wouldn't work.

I also don't think there's any reason to think the Regionals will be any slower. With the modern advances, the dual modes should be lighter than even the ALP-45s, but still just as capable of 125mph. The last I knew, the ALP-45s were only limited to 100mph due to the tracks they were usually on, and the cars they hauled, not the locomotive itself. Even if these dual mode-powered Regionals are a little slower, it would only be on Regionals leaving the corridor. The Keystones (unless extended to Pittsburgh) and WAS-NYP/BOS Regionals would be unaffected, and the Carolinian and Palmetto might actually be sped up since they shouldn't be limited to 110mph anymore!
  by bdawe
 
PHLSpecial wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:45 am I might have been over reacting with my comments about Amtrak not maintaining the wires anymore. But I do wonder if Amtrak has the same thoughts. I hope they hang more wires for the future if service demands it.
they're not getting rid of the wires because they need them for Acelas. But this is definitely a long term investment against modern rolling stock for the NEC otherwise
  by bostontrainguy
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:43 am Agreed with above. Amtrak electric power isn’t going away, ever. Anyone implying that the Sprinters are going to be retired is jumping the shark.
Check this out:

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2021/07/0 ... rnization/

This phase will also see the near-complete retirement of the current Siemens ACS-64 Sprinter fleet, as Amtrak will sell or lease out the fleet rather than give them a mid-life overhaul. A small handful will be kept to support long distance trains running into New York’s Penn Station.
  by mcgrath618
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:19 am
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:43 am Agreed with above. Amtrak electric power isn’t going away, ever. Anyone implying that the Sprinters are going to be retired is jumping the shark.
Check this out:

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2021/07/0 ... rnization/

This phase will also see the near-complete retirement of the current Siemens ACS-64 Sprinter fleet, as Amtrak will sell or lease out the fleet rather than give them a mid-life overhaul. A small handful will be kept to support long distance trains running into New York’s Penn Station.
This is the second time someone has cited that website. Not only have I never heard of it before today, but it also seems to be a mostly air-related publication.

Nowhere in the Amtrak or Siemens press releases does it say ANYTHING about retiring the Sprinters specifically. I suspect that this was either bad info or simply baseless speculation on Runwaygirl’s part.

The Sprinters are only five years old. They were built for a service life at least quadruple that.

If someone can provide me an official Amtrak publication, report, spec sheet, or otherwise that says that these are definitive replacement for the Sprinters, I will gladly eat my own shorts. Until then, this is all just speculation.

What I am still confused on is whether or not these are true trainsets or if they are just regular Venture cars (not unlike what was delivered to Amtrak Midwest). If it’s the former, I suppose I could concede that these would make sense as Sprinter replacements, albeit very premature.

Until the specs come out, again, this is all speculation.
Last edited by mcgrath618 on Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by eolesen
 

bdawe wrote:
PHLSpecial wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:45 am I might have been over reacting with my comments about Amtrak not maintaining the wires anymore. But I do wonder if Amtrak has the same thoughts. I hope they hang more wires for the future if service demands it.
they're not getting rid of the wires because they need them for Acelas. But this is definitely a long term investment against modern rolling stock for the NEC otherwise
The dual mode and battery hybrids seem to imply that Amtrak is moving away from the idea you need captive subfleets of power for specific areas. I suspect we will see the duals being maintained in Beech vs Bear since they can be routed there under their own power in revenue service.

I'd also argue the dual mode investment supports the notion that further electrification is doubtful. If the current politics are so favorable to passenger rail and environmental policies (which many here seem to be convinced of), why hasn't infrastructure money been specifically tagged for installing more wire?

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by hxa
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:56 am
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:19 am
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:43 am Agreed with above. Amtrak electric power isn’t going away, ever. Anyone implying that the Sprinters are going to be retired is jumping the shark.
Check this out:

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2021/07/0 ... rnization/

This phase will also see the near-complete retirement of the current Siemens ACS-64 Sprinter fleet, as Amtrak will sell or lease out the fleet rather than give them a mid-life overhaul. A small handful will be kept to support long distance trains running into New York’s Penn Station.
This is the second time someone has cited that website. Not only have I never heard of it before today, but it also seems to be a mostly air-related publication.

Nowhere in the Amtrak or Siemens press releases does it say ANYTHING about retiring the Sprinters specifically. I suspect that this was either bad info or simply baseless speculation on Runwaygirl’s part.

The Sprinters are only five years old. They were built for a service life at least quadruple that. Let’s use some logic here people.

If someone can provide me an official Amtrak publication, report, spec sheet, or otherwise that says that these are definitive replacement for the Sprinters, I will gladly eat my own shorts. Until then, this is all just speculation.
The author implied earlier that this info came from an Amtrak PR on twitter :
  by mcgrath618
 
hxa wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:00 pm
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:56 am
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:19 am
mcgrath618 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:43 am Agreed with above. Amtrak electric power isn’t going away, ever. Anyone implying that the Sprinters are going to be retired is jumping the shark.
Check this out:

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2021/07/0 ... rnization/

This phase will also see the near-complete retirement of the current Siemens ACS-64 Sprinter fleet, as Amtrak will sell or lease out the fleet rather than give them a mid-life overhaul. A small handful will be kept to support long distance trains running into New York’s Penn Station.
This is the second time someone has cited that website. Not only have I never heard of it before today, but it also seems to be a mostly air-related publication.

Nowhere in the Amtrak or Siemens press releases does it say ANYTHING about retiring the Sprinters specifically. I suspect that this was either bad info or simply baseless speculation on Runwaygirl’s part.

The Sprinters are only five years old. They were built for a service life at least quadruple that. Let’s use some logic here people.

If someone can provide me an official Amtrak publication, report, spec sheet, or otherwise that says that these are definitive replacement for the Sprinters, I will gladly eat my own shorts. Until then, this is all just speculation.
The author implied earlier that this info came from an Amtrak PR on twitter :
Where in that tweet is that implied?
  by electricron
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:19 am Check this out:
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2021/07/0 ... rnization/
This phase will also see the near-complete retirement of the current Siemens ACS-64 Sprinter fleet, as Amtrak will sell or lease out the fleet rather than give them a mid-life overhaul. A small handful will be kept to support long distance trains running into New York’s Penn Station.
Long distance trains entering or leaving New York via DC are the Cardinal, Crescent, Silver Meteor, and Silver Star. Aware that the Cardinal does not run every day, there are day it does run. So that’s four named trains, requiring two trains a day, north and southbound trains, for a total of 8 electric locomotives. Even if Amtrak decides to have a 100% coverage for spares, a total now 16 locomotives at most will be needed. With 65 ACS-64s locomotives in its’ roster, they will have around 60 too many of them.

Toronto’s GO transit with Ontario money is planning to electrify some of its’ rail corridors and could use many of these locomotives if other American agencies do not pick them up.
Last edited by electricron on Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by eolesen
 

This is the second time someone has cited that website. Not only have I never heard of it before today, but it also seems to be a mostly air-related publication.
I wouldn't dismiss it. RunwayGirl may sound like it's air only but they also focus on passenger experience, which isn't unique to air.

The author of that piece is connected with people I personally know and consider credible. It wouldn't surprise me if he's also connected with former Delta people that came to Amtrak with Richard Anderson.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  • 1
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 23