Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

A 25 hz transformer has to be heavier than a 60 hz transformer, it needs more of an iron core to do the same work.
But don't all amtrak electric engines do both , so it would have to be heavy enough for 25 hz anyway.

An odd thought this morning. Will the Airo engines handle 60 Hz power as well as 25 Hz power?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 8:09 am An odd thought this morning. Will the Airo engines handle 60 Hz power as well as 25 Hz power?

All I can find are statements that these trainsets work with both the 25 kV and 12.5 kV systems, not 25 / 60 Hz, but since the (if I am reading Wikipedia correctly), the 25 Hz system is 12.5 kV and the 60 Hz system is 25 kV, I think the answer is "yes".

Incidentally, while looking for this, I did find a quote from NYDOT in Condé Nast Traveler that NYDOT expects the battery equipped units to use battery power to boost acceleration away from stations outside the extent of existing electrification.

First north east Airo trains are in the assembly fase.



From 2:30 till the end are some coach cars assembled, but also an electric APV is visible on 2:49 second last car with enough space for the panthographs.

SR - Since this is an unofficial video of the Siemens facility is the poster making an educated guess
or was able to actually get inside information on the status of railcars and locomotives being built?

It would be interesting to get an idea of just how currently backlogged Siemens is with
their various orders...
Seeing the new VIA Rail Canada equipment sets makes me think of the restrictions
of their use that CN has placed on them...
Will any Airo sets that may be used in the Midwest run into problems if they are used on
CN-operated routes when they are finally built and delivered to Amtrak?

Anything shown that may be for the NEC is a long way off meaning years away -
2026 at the earliest?
MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:37 pm Seeing the new VIA Rail Canada equipment sets makes me think of the restrictions
of their use that CN has placed on them...
Will any Airo sets that may be used in the Midwest run into problems if they are used on
CN-operated routes when they are finally built and delivered to Amtrak?
MACTRAXX

Presently, CN has a 32 axle requirement for trains running on their corridor south of Chicago which the Illini, Saluki, and City of New Orleans uses. 32 axles is one locomotive and seven cars, or two locomotives and six cars. Amtrak has yet to run Venture trains on this route, and continues to run Superliner on all three trains. They don't even run Horizon or Amfleet cars on this route. The Illinois subsidized trains use 14 Superliner cars that Amtrak really would rather run on west of Chicago long distance trains.

These run -:@ 233 kmh

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:47 pm These run -:@ 233 kmh

Yes, they do on DB track. No they can not on CN track.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 8:57 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 8:09 am An odd thought this morning. Will the Airo engines handle 60 Hz power as well as 25 Hz power?

All I can find are statements that these trainsets work with both the 25 kV and 12.5 kV systems, not 25 / 60 Hz, but since the (if I am reading Wikipedia correctly), the 25 Hz system is 12.5 kV and the 60 Hz system is 25 kV, I think the answer is "yes".

Just to clarify, the NEC is 12KV 25 HZ from Washington to just north (RR East) of NYP, I believe the frequency change is at GATE interlocking. From there until just East of New Haven it is 12.5KV 60 HZ. From there to Boston 25 KV 60 HZ.

Why are they running 25 Hz anywhere?

Because it would cost too much to convert to 60Hz.

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:04 pm Presently, CN has a 32 axle requirement for trains running on their corridor south of Chicago which the Illini, Saluki, and City of New Orleans uses. 32 axles is one locomotive and seven cars, or two locomotives and six cars. Amtrak has yet to run Venture trains on this route, and continues to run Superliner on all three trains. They don't even run Horizon or Amfleet cars on this route. The Illinois subsidized trains use 14 Superliner cars that Amtrak really would rather run on west of Chicago long distance trains.

There is also an axle weight requirement on that particular line for each axle which is why they haven't switched to Ventures. Any car which doesn't meet the axle weight essentially doesn't count towards the axle count for shunting. None of the single level stuff is heavy enough which is why they're using Superliners.

MattW wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:05 am Because it would cost too much to convert to 60Hz.

True. Believe it or not, Amtrak prefers to keep the line south from NYC at 25 Hz, because of it's smoother sine way because it uses rotating generator sets. Modern day SCR's and other electronic generating means have spikes on their sine ways, which can damage locomotive electronic and electric equipment.
Compromise, a mix of modern electronics and old fashion electrical rotating equipment, provides a balance between both preventive and corrective maintenance.

MattW wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:05 am Because it would cost too much to convert to 60Hz.

I support conversion as necessary once HSR starts expanding into the NEC. That is going to be due to HSR equipment costs would increase to install 25 / 60 hZ transformers. Also the additional weight would wear the HSR tracks faster. That extra weight even applies to the NEC now and MNRR use by Amtrak. It is going to be the last mile runs into NYP, PHL, BAL, and WASH, that will not want anything to do with 25 hZ. The situation of SEPTA's Reading lines 25 hZ is going to be a real problem. I am not even sure if the Reading lines are still 11 kV or higher up ,to Amtrak's 12 kV??

However, conversion needs to wait until the last minute while all the deferred maintenance and upgrading to HrSR is accomplished NYP - WASH.

CN has known that the new equipment is coming for almost a decade. Why they still have this ridiculous axle and weight requirement is boggling.