Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance

A Cascades Airo train car.

David Benton wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2024 2:59 am Average speed that counts, not top speed.

Its really not speed at all. There is a saying on the railroad. It is not how fast you go. It is how you go fast. It all boils down to how fast or on point am I as the engineer in getting into and out of temporary or permanent speed restrictions, spotting the train at stations, this also includes slowing down for the stop itself. How quick are the traincrew in boarding and discharging passengers. Seconds add up to minutes real quick and if there is no "fat" in the schedule the conductor is going to have to weave a tail.

And then there are the passengers. I was reading the delay causes for a train we are trying to save, and probably 1/2 of them are caused by passenger action, or needs.
Train held for passenger running to catch it most common, passenger needing assistance to board/ detrain, and surprisingly common, passenger been removed with the assistance of police. On long distance trains , passengers never seem to realise where to take their luggage's the whole train waits while they haul it from one end to the other.

David Benton wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 6:02 am And then there are the passengers. I was reading the delay causes for a train we are trying to save, and probably 1/2 of them are caused by passenger action, or needs.
Train held for passenger running to catch it most common, passenger needing assistance to board/ detrain, and surprisingly common, passenger been removed with the assistance of police. On long distance trains , passengers never seem to realise where to take their luggage's the whole train waits while they haul it from one end to the other.

Many of these passenger delays could be prevented if Amtrak employs every station with a station clerk. You know, somebody to educate awaiting passengers what to do, to unlock the portable lift from its storage and position it prior to the trains arrival and store it later, and to answer deboarding passengers questions on what transportation is available locally. A friendly assistance enabler when assistance is mostly needed.

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:04 am Many of these passenger delays could be prevented if Amtrak employs every station with a station clerk. You know, somebody to educate awaiting passengers what to do, to unlock the portable lift from its storage and position it prior to the trains arrival and store it later, and to answer deboarding passengers questions on what transportation is available locally. A friendly assistance enabler when assistance is mostly needed.

Every station? Including ones that get little traffic that they are described as flag stops?

Let us get things straight: There will be stations that get less than one person a day taking them over the span of a year. Some stations only get considerable traffic on certain days that are scheduled (Boy Scout Jamborees, large state fairs, etc) and can use some staff but for random one-offs at flag stop stations? Do we really need staff there?

I will contend that some stations have enough traffic to warrant staff on hand but right now do not have them. I also contend that some stations should have a retractable high-block for mobility-impaired passengers on single-level equipment.

But all of them regardless of traffic?!?

We have padded schedules for a reason.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:18 am

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:04 am Many of these passenger delays could be prevented if Amtrak employs every station with a station clerk. You know, somebody to educate awaiting passengers what to do, to unlock the portable lift from its storage and position it prior to the trains arrival and store it later, and to answer deboarding passengers questions on what transportation is available locally. A friendly assistance enabler when assistance is mostly needed.

I will contend that some stations have enough traffic to warrant staff on hand but right now do not have them. I also contend that some stations should have a retractable high-block for mobility-impaired passengers on single-level equipment.

But all of them regardless of traffic?!?

We have padded schedules for a reason.

Mr. Wolf in regards to the retractable device for the mobility impaired, again you are spotting a door at a spot that may or may not work with how the train is set up. You could end up making two stops instead of one, at least with the lift you can bring it to the door you need to use not the train to the retractable device. Again it is not how fast you go, it is how you go fast.

David Benton wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 6:02 am And then there are the passengers. I was reading the delay causes for a train we are trying to save, and probably 1/2 of them are caused by passenger action, or needs.
Train held for passenger running to catch it most common, passenger needing assistance to board/ detrain, and surprisingly common, passenger been removed with the assistance of police. On long distance trains , passengers never seem to realise where to take their luggage's the whole train waits while they haul it from one end to the other.

Trains late so I'm going to be late or it leaves at 4:10pm I'll get there at 4:09pm they will hold the train for me. I hear the announcements everyday doors will close 5 minutes before departure no exceptions. Hear the yardmaster give the crew the train a minute or so before departure time with "one on the escalator" once you have them OK to go.
People really don't know how to pack or they bring Grandma to the station and drop her off for a trip to see the family on the other side of the country and perhaps she should not be traveling by herself. Some folks "need assistance' to board but when its smoke break time they are healed.
Folks need to take the ear buds out and listen to the instructions given as they are boarding or detraining. I can't tell you how many times as a Conductor I would make a stop and would be asked is this XYZ?? No, this is ABC. Or is the train to XYZ?? Yes it is, grab a seat in this coach. Two seconds later hey I'm going to MNO an I in the right spot?? NO. Why are you asking ne about XYZ. How come this door did not open?? Did you see a member of the crew at that door?? I don't remember where I put my bags. How the fuq can you travel and not remember where you put your bags or cell phone.

I think between the two of you, there’s a solution.

Amtrak knows the boardings and debarkings on any given day. After all, they have this client/server computer selling tickets.

If there is an unusual load boarding at Plasticville, then the nearest significant station sends out an employee to assist. Yes, it may require an amendment to certain craft’s contracts. Yes, mileage (or a rental car), meals, possibly lodging an incidental expenses need reimbursement (GSA has a tool for that, the Federal Travel Regulation).

This isn’t rocket surgery.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:18 am

electricron wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:04 am Many of these passenger delays could be prevented if Amtrak employs every station with a station clerk. You know, somebody to educate awaiting passengers what to do, to unlock the portable lift from its storage and position it prior to the trains arrival and store it later, and to answer deboarding passengers questions on what transportation is available locally. A friendly assistance enabler when assistance is mostly needed.

Every station? Including ones that get little traffic that they are described as flag stops?

Let us get things straight: There will be stations that get less than one person a day taking them over the span of a year. Some stations only get considerable traffic on certain days that are scheduled (Boy Scout Jamborees, large state fairs, etc) and can use some staff but for random one-offs at flag stop stations? Do we really need staff there?

I will contend that some stations have enough traffic to warrant staff on hand but right now do not have them. I also contend that some stations should have a retractable high-block for mobility-impaired passengers on single-level equipment.

But all of them regardless of traffic?!?

We have padded schedules for a reason.

I agree that if there is sufficient warning (ether in advance of an event or the unusual amount of boardings/debarkings in unstaffed places), send staff out to help. That's all good.

The passengers are another story, because when I was riding MARC up to Baltimore, you'd have someone take my train up instead of Amtrak from BWI on a weekly basis... and I also ended up helping a family who knew zero English (but Spanish, so I could use Google Translate) get the right train at BWI. There are no good solutions when dealing with the willfully ignorant.

So how 'bout them AIro's?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:22 pm So how 'bout them AIro's?

We got a full set yet?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:47 pm

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:22 pm So how 'bout them AIro's?

We got a full set yet?

We got the specs of the APV yet?

I may see them when??? 2035?? By then I will be retired and the only thing I will want from the railroad is my pension check.

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:21 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:47 pm

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:22 pm So how 'bout them AIro's?

We got a full set yet?

We got the specs of the APV yet?

What kind of specs are you looking for?
The airo trainset will be have the same hp as a single ALC 42 in diesel mode with 2 electric motors for a truck.
The APV has at least one powered truck, but Amtrak FY24-29 Five Year Service and Asset Line Plans (page 92 configuration B1) states that

"The passenger car closest to the locomotive will be an Auxiliary Power ehicle (APV) containing a pantograph, transformer cabinet, and supplemental powered trucks for use in electrified territory. Power drawn from the APV will also be fed to the traction motors in the locomotive to ensure sufficient acceleration when operating on the Northeast Corridor. "

From a grammatical point of view it can be read that both trucks of the APV are powered. Each electric motor has a 729 KW rating. 8 times of that will be around the 5800 KW (out of my head) But if there are only six. Then there is around 4400 KW available. HEP will be atleast 1 MW or 1000 KW, which will not limit the traction power in electric territory.

At first glance it would seem that the Airos with 4 powered trucks would equal the same as the NEC regionals that are now having 2 ACS on those 8 car regionals. However, since the APV will weigh less than the ALCEs its factor of adhesion will be somewhat less so not as much HP can be applied during slower speed increases. To complicate acceleration rates further the original as I understand it will be only 7 cars? So less train weight.

There may quickly be some of those train sets with fewer or more cars that will also complicate the results.

It has not been clarified to my satisfaction if the APV will be used when in diesel mode for acceleration from standing starts to the speed that the ALC can apply full power to its traction motors. Also, in diesel mode there is the HEP draw that can be variable taking power away from the traction motors. Or in worse cases shutting off HEP when needed on steep grades that now happens occasionally.

Do not get me wrong the concept of the APV is very important IMO especially when there is the occasional traction motor failure on an ALC Airo Train set!