• Siemens Single Level Cars for CA/IL/Midwest

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by Matt Johnson
 
I didn't realize the restroom water needed to be potable! I would never have considered drinking it.
  by scratchyX1
 
Matt Johnson wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:20 am I didn't realize the restroom water needed to be potable! I would never have considered drinking it.
My guess is that after the very public "hell trains" of MARC back in the 2000s (i was on one of them), where people were drinking from the sink to remain hydrated, it became a requirement.
  by STrRedWolf
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:50 am
Matt Johnson wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:20 am I didn't realize the restroom water needed to be potable! I would never have considered drinking it.
My guess is that after the very public "hell trains" of MARC back in the 2000s (i was on one of them), where people were drinking from the sink to remain hydrated, it became a requirement.
Yeah, the MARC II cars had spigots on the outside of the bathrooms for potable water to drink. However, if I remember correctly, the "hell trains" were all MARC IIIs.
  by eolesen
 
Matt Johnson wrote:I didn't realize the restroom water needed to be potable! I would never have considered drinking it.
If there is a sink and a tap, it has to be potable because somebody could fill a cup. If I remember, the water used in the toilet is recirculating, and tinted blue as a warning to people not to try to drink that...

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  by west point
 
you cannot stop children from drinking from anything that has water flowing.
  by RRspatch
 
eolesen wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:28 pm If there is a sink and a tap, it has to be potable because somebody could fill a cup.

[..snip..]
That might be a key point here. Did the RFP from Amtrak, Caltrans and the midwestern states actually state that "potable" water be provided or was it just assumed? Siemens has built a lot of passenger cars for Europe most notably the Railjet (OBB) and the Regiojet (CD). In my travels through Europe in every train toilet room I've ever been in there was a picture of a drinking glass with a RED slash through it. In other words, DON'T drink the tap water. My question therefore is there a picture of a drinking glass with a RED slash through it on Brightline (Viaggio) trains or is this just a minor screwup that Siemens can correct somewhat quickly?
  by STrRedWolf
 
RRspatch wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:11 am That might be a key point here. Did the RFP from Amtrak, Caltrans and the midwestern states actually state that "potable" water be provided or was it just assumed? Siemens has built a lot of passenger cars for Europe most notably the Railjet (OBB) and the Regiojet (CD). In my travels through Europe in every train toilet room I've ever been in there was a picture of a drinking glass with a RED slash through it. In other words, DON'T drink the tap water. My question therefore is there a picture of a drinking glass with a RED slash through it on Brightline (Viaggio) trains or is this just a minor screwup that Siemens can correct somewhat quickly?
Be mindful that us Americans are sue-happy idiots what will gladly ignore signs to the detriment of their wallets and freedom for the simple reason of "I want something" or "I'm bored." So why waste the time and money on lawyers who have to tell people "DIDN'T YOU SEE THE SIGNS?!?" and then extract their fees from the sue-happy "willing victims" when you can just design and build something that'll avoid that problem in the first place?

...maybe buying that Britta water filter-bearing bottle was a good idea...
  by eolesen
 
On older cars that have been rehabbed, I've seen where the sinks are deleted entirely and replaced with a sheet metal countertop and a hand sanitizer dispenser.

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  by eolesen
 

RRspatch wrote:
eolesen wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:28 pm If there is a sink and a tap, it has to be potable because somebody could fill a cup.

[..snip..]
That might be a key point here. Did the RFP from Amtrak, Caltrans and the midwestern states actually state that "potable" water be provided or was it just assumed?
From the RFP:
15.0 Water and Waste System

15.1 Overview
A pressurized fresh water system shall be provided on each car to supply potable water for drinking, hand washing, toilet flushing and Café car galley requirements. Storage for 200 gal (757 L) of potable water shall be located in the A/F-end or B-end equipment room of coach and
cab/baggage cars, and 300 gal (1135 L) on café/lounge cars. A re-circulating chiller shall provide chilled potable water to two dispensing stations, one on each level of all cars.

A vacuum type waste retention system shall be provided on each car. The waste tank, drain lines and associated components shall be located in the B-end equipment room. Gray water from toilet room and galley hand washing sinks shall be captured and pumped to the waste
retention tank.

No waste water shall be permitted to drain to ground, including gray water from hand washing sinks. Only fresh water from the following sources shall be permitted to drain to ground:

x Condensate from Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) and chiller units
x Drain from potable water chillers
x Melt water from ice storage bins
x Carbody drains from door tracks and equipment rooms
x Fresh water from water supply system when drained manually or by freeze protection devices

All car types shall have an Accessible Toilet Room (ATR) on the lower level. Coaches and cab/baggage cars shall also have a Unisex Toilet Room (UTR) on the upper level.

The water and waste systems shall be protected from damage due to freezing through the use of heat tape, blanket heaters, automatic drain valves (water system only) and insulation.

See Chapter 14, Food Service, for galley water system requirements.

Further in 15 it requires stainless piping and fittings.

Chapter 14 stated potable for the coffee maker and hand washing sink in the food prep area.

Chapter 19 stated all materials used in food preparation areas of the café-lounge car, potable water systems and trash storage shall be certified to meet all applicable Public Health Service sanitation requirements.

There's no actual mention of lead except as a prohibited material for brake shoes, but seeing as it's been an compliance issue here in water supply lines for 50 years, I'm guessing that lead-free supply and storage is assumed by any US based fabricator....

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  by gokeefe
 
Somebody *REALLY* screwed up ... either they used old lead solder or one of the components wasn't made to spec.

With regards to Budd as "greatest ever" ... I would only note that this is only true due to Amtrak's extraordinary maintenance efforts over the years.

Amtrak has been forced to develop their own in house ability to manufacture or procure needed components long after Budd was no longer willing or able to source parts.

Whether this level of durability was a result of necessity or extraordinary product quality is in my opinion worthy of a permanent discussion in of itself. But it seems worth noting that Amtrak essentially had all of their eggs in one basket. In which case they made damn sure not to drop the basket! Kudos to them for keeping the wheels rolling where it counted the most.

With regards to the Siemens cars ... At least the system worked properly and the cars never made it into service with lead in the drinking water. Now Siemens gets to show how well they can handle a screw up and how quickly they can get it fixed.

Sometimes the measure of a great vendor is how they handle things when they go wrong and not just the ability to deliver to plan. Right now they seem to be doing a good bit better than CAF.

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  by west point
 
Amtrak and builders need to protect their parts supplies. I hope that any parts that may no longer built the tooling for the same will automatically go to Amtrak without cost. If a subsequent part will substitute then that provision would not need to be applied..
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