Should union pacific be made to allow Amtrak on the Tehachapi loop?

railgeekteen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:21 am It's kinda dumb that the San Joaquins can't reach LA, would really benefit CA's Amtrak network in many ways?

Mr. Railgeekteen, I will respect that you opened this topic in good faith, but the ATSF Bakersfield-to multiple Basin destinations "beat the pants off" the SP Daylight to LAUPT - never mind the array of other destinations.

Amtrak and Caltrans was wise to build upon the ATSF model; if you want to "ride the Loop", best keep eyes and ears open as to when there will next be a Starlight reroute and get yourself out there, because there is no way multi-frequency rail passenger service can be justified over the Loop.

UP(ex-SP) Mojave sub is single track CTC except for Bakersfield to Sandcut double track section and from Cable to South Mojave double track section where BNSF spins off eastward to Barstow.
At Palmdale Jct/CP Harold is the connection to the Metrolink (SCAX) Valley line to LAUS
The remaining single track CTC is refered to as prt of the UP Mojave sub,aka the Palmdale cutoff over Cajon Pass to Colton yard near San Berdoo

The ATSF SF Chief did run on the loop to reach ATSF Bakersfield then Oakland back in the day
Routing above was used by the Starlight on a UP detour move

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:05 amHorseshoe Curve has a speed limit of 30 MPH freight, 44 MPH passenger

No US railroad has ever allowed trains 44 mph around a 9-degree curve.

Time for some geometry. Circumference formula = C=2πr.
Diameter = 2r.
The diameter of the Tehachapi Loop is 1210 feet per Wiki
Therefore the circumference is calculated as 3801 feet.
The length if the Loop is 3779 feet per Wiki.
Another 22 feet along the same curve and the train would have made a complete circle.

Remember the diameter was 1210 feet, the radius would be 605 feet. A quarter mile is 1320 feet. The diameter of the Loop is less than a quarter-mile, the radius is less than an eight-mile.

Per Wiki, 38 freight trains run over the loop every day. And some wonder why the UP has banned passenger trains from the Loop?

Whether or not the passenger train can go 25 mph or higher through the loop, it does not matter. Because if the freight trains on a single track line in front of the passenger train are going 25 mph, so is the passenger train following them.

CASHR is DEAD due to cost overruns and political created problems,UP doesn't play well with Amtrak as it is, be lucky this is possible detour route for now.

I've done this detour, it is slow.

This is an example of how CAHSR screwed up. They should have built something that would have been immediately valuable as a demonstration for future value. An improved route through the mountains would have made a ton of sense (as would a full 2-3 track connection between San Diego and Los Angeles.)

Why not just run more trains along the Coast Starlight route?

electricron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:42 pm Time for some geometry. Circumference formula = C=2πr.
Diameter = 2r.
The diameter of the Tehachapi Loop is 1210 feet per Wiki
Therefore the circumference is calculated as 3801 feet.
The length if the Loop is 3779 feet per Wiki.
Another 22 feet along the same curve and the train would have made a complete circle.

Remember the diameter was 1210 feet, the radius would be 605 feet. A quarter mile is 1320 feet. The diameter of the Loop is less than a quarter-mile, the radius is less than an eight-mile.

Per Wiki, 38 freight trains run over the loop every day. And some wonder why the UP has banned passenger trains from the Loop?

Whether or not the passenger train can go 25 mph or higher through the loop, it does not matter. Because if the freight trains on a single track line in front of the passenger train are going 25 mph, so is the passenger train following them.

Makes absolute sense; the freights crawl along. My video of a train on the loop about 10 years ago: https://youtu.be/w38QVqC21AI

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:40 pm Why not just run more trains along the Coast Starlight route?

Because the Coast Line is, while not especially busy, much more lightly populated than the San Joquin Valley. That said, another Coast frequency is in the late corridor scheme

ExCon90 wrote:

bdawe wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:13 am

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:40 pm Why not just run more trains along the Coast Starlight route?Jus

Because the Coast Line is, while not especially busy, much more lightly populated than the San Joquin Valley. That said, another Coast frequency is in the late corridor scheme

And the bulk of the population on the SJV route is Bakersfield and north. Amtrak might do better to increase the frequency between Bakersfield and Oakland/Sacramento and promote the bus connection for LA passengers. Just forget Tehachapi and leave it to the freight trains.

But why should I have to transfer to a bus as opposed to just staying on a train the whole way? If Amtrak can't run on the Tehachapi, then the Coast Starlight is the better option assuming the timing is right. If they had an overnight Coast Starlight like the old Spirit of California I would take it. Last time I was in California I took a bus from San Jose to Santa Barbara and then a Pacific Surfliner into the LA area (Irvine). I don't want to lose my entire day on the train.