• Septa Trolley Modernization

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by Silverliner5
 
Route 16 could be the easiest one septa can add to the subway surface system but the route 10 is also getting an expansion as well where it's goes through parkside avenue to center city starting from 52nd street at a cost of 26 million dollars to build
  by Myrtone
 
Is it true that the lines the SEPTA changed to buses were all entirely street running throughout? Are you only referring to lines replaced by diesel buses or also ones replaced by trolleybuses?

I wonder if any of those discontinued routes, if replaced by diesel buses, should perhaps be converted to trolleybuses. But instead of wires covering the full route length, there could, for example, just be wires on a hill, or have wires only where they can be supported from buildings, the batteries powering them elsewhere.
PHLSpecial wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:01 pm Build waterfront trolley! Connect it to Spring Garden. Would be cool if the trolley directly connected to market street. That's where most of the ridership would come from. Plus if they built more things along the waterfront which the is what city trying to do now.
Would this line have any reserved track, such as alongside roads or in median strips?

As for the trolley modernisation, how about checking out Skoda's offerings?

They offer five 100% low floor models, four of which have pivoting trucks.

Depending on land prices where the subway surface lines run, maybe the new vehicles, if longer, should also have a cab at both ends and doors on both sides so that existing turning loops can be removed once the existing fleet is withdrawn and then SEPTA can sell the land taken by the loops.
This land should only be sold to vaccinated people!
  by JeffK
 
Myrtone wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:36 am Is it true that the lines the SEPTA changed to buses were all entirely street running throughout? Are you only referring to lines replaced by diesel buses or also ones replaced by trolleybuses?
There were (at least) three other lines that used the tunnels. These were all PTC rather than SEPTA:

* 31, from Overbrook Park. Removed from tunnel in 1956
* 37, from Chester. Removed in 1955
* 38, from Parkside. Also removed in 1955
... maybe the new vehicles, if longer, should also have a cab at both ends and doors on both sides so that existing turning loops can be removed once the existing fleet is withdrawn
My understanding is dual-ended cars are under consideration. But of course we're talking about SEPTA, so who knows?
  by Myrtone
 
JeffK wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:37 pm There were (at least) three other lines that used the tunnels.
And these other lines were diverted, right?

Fact is that some (if not most) of your lines use the tunnels and every line of every other surviving electric system in the U.S also uses alternatives to street running.
That one surviving line in Mexico, the Xochimilco line, is also on reserved track.

Back when streetcars were more common, the systems that used these alternatives to street running were exceptions and (as far as I know) even on those systems, most routes did not use these alternatives.

As bus technology improved, buses could move the same people along any of the routes that did not use any of these alternatives to street running.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Penn's Landing trolley used the PBL freight track in the median of Columbus Boulevard and it shouldn't be an
issue, since Conrail no longer operates on PBL north of Snyder by now.
  by scratchyX1
 
So, basically, bring the historic cars back?
  by Myrtone
 
Another thing this might be worth considering for new rolling stock is batteries to allow some sections of overhead wires to be removed instead of the wires being replaced, such as de-electrifying depot trackage. Wires might well be removed from (short sections of) non-revenue track.
At maybe the new vehicles for the "suburban" lines could do with bicycle accommodation. That as well as bike parking near each stop could mean a lot of people cycling to and from stops instead of walking. Could that allow for removal of kerb stops? Those are the ones where the LR.Vs stop in the middle of narrow streets.
Remember, the speed of the average cyclist is greater than the speed of the average walker.
  by Myrtone
 
The S700 is a heavy kind of light rail vehicle with part high floor. Skoda's offerings are all 100% low floor and all but one have pivoting bogies. Bogies right under ends and joints is best as it minimizes wheelbox intrusion.

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  by PHLSpecial
 
Can the S700 be designed so that it will fit into the Pennsylvania gauge?
  by Silverliner5
 
PHLSpecial wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:42 pm Can the S700 be designed so that it will fit into the Pennsylvania gauge?
Of course it can siemens will always find a way to get it to Pennsylvania gauge
  by Silverliner5
 
Oh yeah septa are also considering extending route 10 through parkside but taking it to parkside loop is fine for an existing LRV but who knows if a new one can fit through and another extension for Route 36 where it goes to eastwick station
https://planning.septa.org/projects/tro ... rnization/
  by Myrtone
 
Silverliner5 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:27 pm
PHLSpecial wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:42 pm Can the S700 be designed so that it will fit into the Pennsylvania gauge?
Of course it can siemens will always find a way to get it to Pennsylvania gauge
While Siemens will always be able to find a way, I do wonder how much the design would need to be changed, especially as the bogies may well need to be wider. All parts outside of the wheels would need to be re-evaluated by the design engineers.
Current S700 vehicles all run on standard gauge track and have body panels covering the bogies. Could a Pennsylvania trolley gauge version have those same panels or would the bogies be too wide?

But leaving aside how much the S700 would need redesigning, I do wonder if anyone else here thinks any of Skoda's offerings are better for that legacy system.
S700 is only 70% low floor. Four of Skoda's offerings have pivoting bogies, at least under each end, (like the S700) but Skoda's offerings are all 100% low floor.
Can SEPTA do more for disabled travelers than is currently required by law? Maybe having lots of tip-up seats. The Skoda 15T, because it has less wheelbox intrusion than all other 100% low floor models, could have more tip-up seats, so it would be easy to accommodate more wheelchairs than whatever the Americans with Disabilities Act requires.

Also, doors should be painted a different color from the rest of each side the the vehicle, handrails should be brightly colored. A door alarm should sound at least 3 seconds before the doors open automatically, if push button opened, before it becomes push button openable. A distinctly different door alarm should sound at least three seconds before the doors close if they close automatically.
All of this is mandatory in the United Kingdom. Door alarms should be clear and sufficiently loud but not annoying.

Destination blinds and route number displays need a clearly visible color-background combination. Destinations should be displayed in mixed case - also mandatory in the U.K. Letters and numerals should both be in a font where they are as different from each other as possible. More in this thread.
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