SEPTA Cancels CRRC multi level order (Was:SEPTA to get multi-level railroad coaches)

The $50 million stings since Bombardier was only $34 million more originally.

Canceling the contract was the right choice, but it never should have been inked in the first place. Government dollars should not fund the PRC.

Everyone: Three words - IT'S ABOUT TIME...From reading the Inquirer article (remember the paywall) SEPTA
is NOT out $50 million just yet - there are legal procedures under way to cancel the CRRC contract and recoup
the $50 million dollars from the initial procurement from this problem-plagued multilevel car order...

With this news SEPTA needs to place more emphasis on a 200 car Silverliner Six MU car order for Regional Rail...
The Silverliner Four cars are now entering their fifth decade of service (2024-2026)...With a cost of about $4 million
dollars per car (based on the MFSE order) the pricetag will be around $800 million dollars for new RRD cars...

Will the two constructed SEPTA CRRC multilevel cars be possibly sold and go elsewhere or be scrapped?
MACTRAXX

If anything, the two pilot cars already completed, might best be delivered to EXO/AMT and join their CRRC fleet.

Otherwise they would be orphans.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:50 pm https://www.inquirer.com/transportation ... 40412.html

SEPTA out $50 million after it cancels CRRC order.

Yep, tis true.....the order is kaput, squashed, eighty-sixed, sent to the circular file....

It's been 7 years since the order was placed. I'm not surprised.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:26 pm If anything, the two pilot cars already completed, might best be delivered to EXO/AMT and join their CRRC fleet.

Otherwise they would be orphans.

They're pretty much incompatible with the Exo fleet, and on top of everything else, there were a host of defects still to be dealt with. And that was before the Feds stripped them apart during their investigation of CRRC when they impounded the entire plant and went over every car in there with a fine-tooth comb.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:58 pm Good grief. MBTA should be next.

I have questions for MBTA as to why they are PAYING an additional $100 million plus to CRRC to expedite the remainder of their order when it's CRRC that got behind in the first place, never mind all the issues with their cars.

Silverliner II wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:37 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:58 pm Good grief. MBTA should be next.

I have questions for MBTA as to why they are PAYING an additional $100 million plus to CRRC to expedite the remainder of their order when it's CRRC that got behind in the first place, never mind all the issues with their cars.

Sounds like MBTA is desperate to get the new cars. Also Massachusetts doesn’t want to torch the jobs yet.

Question now is what does SEPTA do with double the number of ACS-64s it needs? Look for used push pull cars? Tack on some push pull coaches to someone else’s order (Amtrak and a Siemens commuter coach variant)! Sell 7-8 of the Sprinters to someone else? Keep all 15 and use them for the next 5 decades on light duty? Start having them push around Silverliner IVs if they start failing?

rcthompson04 wrote:Question now is what does SEPTA do with double the number of ACS-64s it needs? Look for used push pull cars? Tack on some push pull coaches to someone else’s order (Amtrak and a Siemens commuter coach variant)! Sell 7-8 of the Sprinters to someone else? Keep all 15 and use them for the next 5 decades on light duty? Start having them push around Silverliner IVs if they start failing?

That’s a really good point. The Alston Adessia Coach seems like it would be the best fit, but restarting the procurement clock is going to be painful. My hunch is that Septa ends up buying more hand-me-downs from NJT at some point.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:49 pm

Silverliner II wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:37 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:58 pm Good grief. MBTA should be next.

I have questions for MBTA as to why they are PAYING an additional $100 million plus to CRRC to expedite the remainder of their order when it's CRRC that got behind in the first place, never mind all the issues with their cars.

Sounds like MBTA is desperate to get the new cars. Also Massachusetts doesn’t want to torch the jobs yet.

Having had time to think about it, MBTA is so far along now that it may have been cheaper for them to pay to get things expedited. And now that they're the only customer left with a project at Springfield, the CRRC excuse list gets a lot shorter now...

Silverliner II wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:36 am

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:49 pm

Silverliner II wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:37 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:58 pm Good grief. MBTA should be next.

I have questions for MBTA as to why they are PAYING an additional $100 million plus to CRRC to expedite the remainder of their order when it's CRRC that got behind in the first place, never mind all the issues with their cars.

Sounds like MBTA is desperate to get the new cars. Also Massachusetts doesn’t want to torch the jobs yet.

Having had time to think about it, MBTA is so far along now that it may have been cheaper for them to pay to get things expedited. And now that they're the only customer left with a project at Springfield, the CRRC excuse list gets a lot shorter now...

Aren't the LA Metro B and D line cars also being built at Springfield?

Yes, the MBTA is too deep into contract to find new company to finish the order and is desperate for new cars, mostly on the Red Line.

Could not SEPTA lease or buy surplus coaches from NJ Transit? NJT is in the processing of receiving new double-decker rail cars.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 5:43 am Aren't the LA Metro B and D line cars also being built at Springfield?

I don't know, but even LA canceled their option orders with CRRC. They're only taking their initial 64 cars, and are about to put their first 4 CRRC cars into service.

pateljones wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:42 pm Could not SEPTA lease or buy surplus coaches from NJ Transit? NJT is in the processing of receiving new double-decker rail cars.

NJT doesn't have any surplus coaches. The new multilevels have not been delivered yet.... the first train (six cars) is not expected until later this year, and following cars won't be arriving before 2025 after the prototype set undergoes extensive testing. Also, they're only replacing the Arrow MU's with this order. And they are wearing out fast themselves.

If SEPTA wants to get new coaches as rapidly as possible, wouldn't their best bet would be to negotiate exercising options on the existing NJT multilevel order (they can lease a couple of NJT or MARC to confirm clearances) or on the existing CONN DOT order?