SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

The FleX variants stick with the old independence max of 10 rides while the convenience is 8 as you said.

Many riders seem to agree with your sentiment on the single day convenience.

ryan92084 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:45 am The FleX variants stick with the old independence max of 10 rides while the convenience is 8 as you said.

Many riders seem to agree with your sentiment on the single day convenience.

Ryan, PHL and Everyone:
I think that the FLEX pass variants should have the mention of the TEN RIDE limit as part of their name -
I have mentioned this before - this makes users aware of the limitations of these FLEX passes on the Key
out in the open as it should be...Bring back the (almost) ANYWHERE UNLIMITED 1-DAY individual I-PASS!!!

PHL: The One Day Convenience Pass for Transit (NOT valid on Regional Rail) has been 8 rides since the type
was implemented back in the 2000s - The CVP was sold as a punch-type Legacy Pass until 2016-2017...
CVP Legacy Passes were punched with the month and date - and had 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 across the bottom...

I learned that not every vehicle operator or station cashier would always punch the Legacy CVP Passes -
There would be instances that I would be "waved" on board or into a station on presentation of the CVP...
With that thought those 8 punched rides would go further on a one-day CVP than I initially presumed...
CVP Passes on the Key was one way SEPTA closed this extra ride loophole that had existed...

Towards the end of their use Legacy CVP Pass sales increased after transfers were eliminated making them
an even better alternative over $2 cash for each vehicle or entering rapid transit (before $2.50 cash fare).

With the thought of (almost) UNLIMITED ONE DAY LEGACY INDEPENDENCE PASSES - Those that bought or
have Legacy I Passes with the dates 2019-2022 now have less than three months to use them - from what
I am aware of they will be no longer valid or honored for transportation after December 31, 2022...
This puts me in the category having at least two unused Legacy I Passes with these dates that I have...
MACTRAXX

Effective November 1, a PA driver's license will no longer be accepted for the Senior free ride. All seniors must have the SEPTA Senior Key or pay the full freight of an adult fare.

As the previous tariff required a state ID that had a magnetic stripe and and none of the newer style IDs have such a stripe that rule has been effectively in place for years.

ryan92084 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:52 am As the previous tariff required a state ID that had a magnetic stripe and and none of the newer style IDs have such a stripe that rule has been effectively in place for years.

I'm surprised this limitation hasn't been challenged. The state pays for senior fares, which would seemingly imply a valid state ID with your picture and birthdate would be acceptable.

Then again, as the BS on-board surcharge has proven for decades, SEPTA loves to add restrictions that increase the cost for anyone who's not a "model passenger".

Free parking extended again "until further notice". I guess they got tired of having to buy new signs.

JeffK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:41 am

ryan92084 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:52 am As the previous tariff required a state ID that had a magnetic stripe and and none of the newer style IDs have such a stripe that rule has been effectively in place for years.

I'm surprised this limitation hasn't been challenged. The state pays for senior fares, which would seemingly imply a valid state ID with your picture and birthdate would be acceptable.

Then again, as the BS on-board surcharge has proven for decades, SEPTA loves to add restrictions that increase the cost for anyone who's not a "model passenger".

On a similar note I'm surprised someone hasn't raised a stink about how onerous the disabled cards are to acquire and refill. Seems like a slam dunk ADA case to me.

Everyone - The Philadelphia Flower Show is returning to Center City Saturday March 4 to Sunday March 12, 2023
at the Pennsylvania Convention Center adjacent to the A Section of Jefferson (Market East) Station...

For those unaware Flower Show Week has traditionally been one of the busiest time periods of the year for
SEPTA Regional Rail in terms of system ridership numbers - for the first time post pandemic in 2023..

This may become the ULTIMATE test of the SEPTA Key system coming up during Flower Show Week...

From SEPTA information about the Flower Show -
Adult Show Admission $44.50; Child Show Admission (16 and under) $20
SEPTA Day Passes available on the SEPTA Key -
Convenience Pass 8 rides for Transit Only $6
Neighborhood Flex Pass $10 for Transit and RRD up to Zone 2 - 10 ride limit
Anywhere Flex Pass $13 - includes all RRD zones - 10 ride limit

A list of open Regional Rail stations ticket office hours during Flower Show Week has been posted
at the SEPTA website - most noteable is that there will be NO ticket offices open outside of Center
City on the four weekend days which can have the highest attendance rates of the entire FS run...

The Jefferson Station West ticket office in Section A is currently slated to be CLOSED on ALL FOUR
Flower Show WEEKEND show days forcing ALL riders to use the Section B ticket office open between
8:30 AM to 5:00 PM - SEPTA not using the Section A ticket office closest to the PA Convention Center
looks to be a HUGE mistake that will only add to problems for Jefferson Station passengers...

This is going to be an interesting time period for SEPTA and its riders...MACTRAXX

Likely SEPTA has realized the ticket offices don't have anything to sell day trippers just taking the regional rail in and out so no point in keeping outlying stations open. This will be more of a test for the conductor's and the exit fare machines than anything else (i suppose you could add customer bladders to the list). Other retailers have been offering steeper discounts on the show tickets for years so no real reason there either. Also just checking a few of the station hours listed in the bulletin they look to be info that is at least 6 months out of date.
https://www5.septa.org/bulletins/2023-p ... rch-11-12/

Ryan - Thanks for posting the SEPTA RRD Flower Show bulletin page...
I was referring to that information after my device was not able to link into this topic...

A substantial portion of Flower Show Week ridership are folks that normally do not use Regional Rail...
A demographic example is middle aged and older suburban women using RRD for a one day round trip...

Legacy tickets and I Passes made using Regional Rail for these less-than-occasional riders convenient.
There is going to be many of these people that do not know how to use - and object to the extra fee -
to obtain a SEPTA Key card that otherwise they would not use again and do not need...

With all outlying RRD sales locations closed for the four weekend days that will place added burden on
train crews and gate staffers at Jefferson Station in particular. I expect long lines at the B Section ticket
office at JS if the A Section ticket office remains closed and other possible confusion and crowding at JS.

The five weekdays of the Flower Show - which in general have lower FS attendance numbers - will have
ample outlying sales and ticket offices available...The busiest FS weekday trains once were off-peak
arrivals around the time of morning gate opening (10 AM) and afternoon trains leaving JS after 2 PM.

Flower Show 2023 hours are: Friday March 3 - PHS Members Only preview 12 Noon to 3 PM
Saturday March 4 - 10 AM to 8 PM
Sunday March 5 to Thursday March 9 - 10 AM to 7 PM
Friday and Saturday March 10-11 - 10 AM to 8 PM
Sunday March 12 - 10 AM to 6 PM
Source: PHS Flower Show FAQ...I now recall specifically that the two Saturdays are the busiest FS days.
It will be interesting to note FS attendance by each day and RRD ridership numbers during that week.
Let's hope for the best...MACTRAXX

Ryan: Taking note to the Ticket Office Hours at Jefferson Station during the Flower Show -
SEPTA should not only have the A Section office open - hours at both the A and B Sections
should be extended until minimum 1/2 hour after the Flower Show closes for each day.
This could be MOST important on Saturday March 4th - "Opening" FS days are always busy...

The TVMs "Fare Kiosks" are somewhat slow and may be confusing for riders that have never used them.
Staffers will need to be assisting TVM sales along with the normal gate coverage for entry and exit.

Beginning in 2013 (until the last PCC Flower Show in 2020) the day schedule of the FS was "shifted" -
Both weekend days - five day week - both weekend days - for a total of 9 days open to the public.

2012 and before (PCC years) the total of public FS days was eight. The first Saturday was for PHS members
and invited guests for what was a "preview" day with Sunday the first day open to the public.
Five day week, Saturday and Sunday added up to 8 show days for those FS runs.

The reason for the day shift was that the second Saturday had become the busiest single FS day.
Adding another Saturday and moving the preview to Friday was the change to 9 days beginning in 2013.

Riding SEPTA Regional Rail during Flower Show Week was enhanced with added service (especially on busy
weekend days) and more cars on some trains along with additional Ticket Office hours on ALL FS days.

This year's Flower Show plan is going to be interesting in terms of RRD ridership and fare collection...MACTRAXX

After $236 million, SEPTA plans to dump the Key card and seek a system that works with smartphones
https://www.inquirer.com/transportatio ... 30419.html

SEPTA is looking to ditch its beleaguered Key card fare platform.

After 11 years, the transit agency is shopping for a contractor to build a new fare collection system with more convenient payment options and more adaptable technology.

Key has suffered from delays, glitches and ballooning costs since it was launched in 2016, two years later than expected. SEPTA has paid Conduent Inc. $263 million for upgrades and system maintenance as well as the initial work — more than double the project’s original budget.

nomis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:06 pm After $236 million, SEPTA plans to dump the Key card and seek a system that works with smartphones
https://www.inquirer.com/transportatio ... 30419.html

SEPTA is looking to ditch its beleaguered Key card fare platform.

After 11 years, the transit agency is shopping for a contractor to build a new fare collection system with more convenient payment options and more adaptable technology.

Key has suffered from delays, glitches and ballooning costs since it was launched in 2016, two years later than expected. SEPTA has paid Conduent Inc. $263 million for upgrades and system maintenance as well as the initial work — more than double the project’s original budget.

nomis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:06 pm After $236 million, SEPTA plans to dump the Key card and seek a system that works with smartphones
https://www.inquirer.com/transportatio ... 30419.html

SEPTA is looking to ditch its beleaguered Key card fare platform.

After 11 years, the transit agency is shopping for a contractor to build a new fare collection system with more convenient payment options and more adaptable technology.

Key has suffered from delays, glitches and ballooning costs since it was launched in 2016, two years later than expected. SEPTA has paid Conduent Inc. $263 million for upgrades and system maintenance as well as the initial work — more than double the project’s original budget.

It's about time they dropped this ridiculous system. Why did they have to reinvent the wheel?

I use Metro North, LIRR and NJ Transit, and I buy my ticket on their apps before leaving for the station and activate them as the train is pulling in. Simple and easy to use. No fare gates. No Key cards to buy. Just an app with a few buttons to push.

mbm537 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:49 pm Why did they have to reinvent the wheel?

Because ... SEPTA.

They've historically raised (lowered?) Not-Invented-Here to a mantra for both systems and equipment design. And it's not like they weren't warned almost from day one that the Key would be a hot mess.

mbm537 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:49 pm I use Metro North, LIRR and NJ Transit, and I buy my ticket on their apps before leaving for the station and activate them as the train is pulling in. Simple and easy to use. No fare gates. No Key cards to buy. Just an app with a few buttons to push.

I do recall LIRR planning to phase out on board cash fares in the future.

MBTA does have mTicket but still has cash fares as an options. There are a limited number of fare kiosks
in outlying areas, but NJT managed to have at least one vending machine at each station.