• SC-44 Siemens Charger Locomotives

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  • 766 posts
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 52
  by ngotwalt
 
I'm sorry, but an order for 32 locomotives does not make me fear for the P42s impending doom. Yes there is an option for 225 more, and when that option gets executed, then we can start talking about the last Genesis runs, until then, this is an order for corridor locomotives to go with the new bilevels.
Cheers,
Nick
  by Fan Railer
 
This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.
  by mtuandrew
 
AMTK822401 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.
Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page
On this first page: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 6&t=151460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (though to be fair, the thread title is about the acquisition process, not the specific equipment.)
  by Fan Railer
 
AMTK822401 wrote:
Fan Railer wrote:This is old news and was being discussed elsewhere in this forum.
Charger=/= ACS 64. Besides, there is no topic on it on the first page
as mtu stated... you should read into threads before jumping to conclusions.
  by Matt Johnson
 
That thing got a hemi?
  by Backshophoss
 
If this is about the Cummins powered wonder,that Cat/EMD protested about,Cummins still
has plenty of R+D to do to create a prime mover for the locos.
The gensets DON'T count!
The EVO based kit that GE developed(MBTA-HSP-46) will be the better bet.
Illinois was the lead on this bid for the midwest group of states also buying a part of the 2nd gen Surfliner
order built in Rochelle Il.
  by ngotwalt
 
I think Siemens inexpereince with the realties of American diesel locomotives will make these units fail. What it does mean, however, is Amtrak is actively looking for a replacement for the good ol' Gennies
Don't sell Siemens short. They're probably the global leader in railway motive power. We think highly of GE and EMD, but they only build diesel locomotives, Siemens does a whole lot more, and I would not under estimate the Germans in anyway.
Cheers,
Nick
  by dowlingm
 
What is this "I hope they fail" nonsense. If anything this should make EMD and GE being forward better offerings in specification and pricing terms - EMD has made an F125 sale which means there will be a running locomotive to compare vs the Charger. Also Siemens assemble in California rather than a race to the bottom state which cares little for advancing passenger rail (Indiana). That said, Cummins are placing a big bet here, having already had to substitute on Metrolinx' MP40 repower. Given their importance to rail (in the DMU space particularly) and non-rail transit engines a bad outcome for this contract could have significant wider implications.
  by gokeefe
 
I think it is interesting to observe a foreign company inching in on territory that has almost always been a lock for American products. First they made their move with the ACS-64. No big deal there, electric traction has been imported for a long time now especially since the less than stellar performance of the E60s. Easy enough for executives at EMD and to a lesser extent at GE to write off as "insignificant", "meaningless" or "trivial".

Not so "trivial" would be the entry of a third major diesel-electric option into the American motive power market. While the Siemens product is likely a "passenger-first" design I doubt that anything powered by Caterpillar would have much difficulty being repurposed for freight. By securing the Amtrak contract Siemens provided startup work for their California plant, quietly gained a foothold in North America (which has one of the largest motive power markets in the world) and now is slowly ramping up to produce a diesel-electric option. I hope the suits in the Executive Suites in La Grange and the Heller Building in Chicago (GE Transportation) are taking this threat to their market dominance seriously.If they don't it could cost them their jobs.
  by ThirdRail7
 
ngotwalt wrote:
I think Siemens inexpereince with the realties of American diesel locomotives will make these units fail. What it does mean, however, is Amtrak is actively looking for a replacement for the good ol' Gennies
Don't sell Siemens short. They're probably the global leader in railway motive power. We think highly of GE and EMD, but they only build diesel locomotives, Siemens does a whole lot more, and I would not under estimate the Germans in anyway.
Cheers,
Nick
gokeefe wrote:I think it is interesting to observe a foreign company inching in on territory that has almost always been a lock for American products. First they made their move with the ACS-64. No big deal there, electric traction has been imported for a long time now especially since the less than stellar performance of the E60s. Easy enough for executives at EMD and to a lesser extent at GE to write off as "insignificant", "meaningless" or "trivial".

Not so "trivial" would be the entry of a third major diesel-electric option into the American motive power market. While the Siemens product is likely a "passenger-first" design I doubt that anything powered by Caterpillar would have much difficulty being repurposed for freight. By securing the Amtrak contract Siemens provided startup work for their California plant, quietly gained a foothold in North America (which has one of the largest motive power markets in the world) and now is slowly ramping up to produce a diesel-electric option. I hope the suits in the Executive Suites in La Grange and the Heller Building in Chicago (GE Transportation) are taking this threat to their market dominance seriously.If they don't it could cost them their jobs.
As Ngotwalt previously mentioned, this is a small order. The ACS-64s are barely on the beam and what is operating is less than stellar thus far. The game is too young for this sort of speculation.
  by dowlingm
 
Siemens have been selling into the US since before the Civil War. They may be owned by foreigners but so are Bombardier, Alstom, CAF, Talgo, Stadler, Nippon Sharyo, Rotem, Kawasaki. What the US does have is the market power to have legislation like Buy America and get away with it, resulting in significant foreign direct investment to the US.
  by dowlingm
 
I have no idea what a 50 year ago diesel hydraulic locomotive has to do with anything. The Siemens locomotive is not using a German engine such as the MTU unit in their Vectron and Eurorunner offerings. It is using the Cummins QSK95, made in Indiana.
  by Fan Railer
 
AMTK822401 wrote:
dowlingm wrote:What is this "I hope they fail" nonsense. If anything this should make EMD and GE being forward better offerings in specification and pricing terms - EMD has made an F125 sale which means there will be a running locomotive to compare vs the Charger. Also Siemens assemble in California rather than a race to the bottom state which cares little for advancing passenger rail (Indiana). That said, Cummins are placing a big bet here, having already had to substitute on Metrolinx' MP40 repower. Given their importance to rail (in the DMU space particularly) and non-rail transit engines a bad outcome for this contract could have significant wider implications.
I really don't like these engines. Pardon me for being stupid and selfish, but I think their best bet would be a Tier IV compliant GEVO locomotive vs. an unproven combination of manufactures, some of whom have never built an American road diesel. The reason we don't run european equipment is because we run under different conditions. (Grades, constant idleing etc.) Check out the SP 9010 project, you will find that the German engines were not well suited to the conditions abroad. Also, my understanding is stationary generators don't make good locomotive engines right off the shelf. This is because generators run at a constant output while locomotive engines are much more variable and are often run harder. Good day to you sir.
Fact check: both engine manufacturers are American companies... aside from the stipulation that high speed diesels have yet to fully prove themselves in the rail application. So far, I have not heard any major problems from the CAT engines in the ALP-45DPs running for NJT, nor have I heard of any major problem with the CAT engines running in the NS PR43C. Cummins has not seen any major rail action here as far as I know, but I don't doubt their ability to perform in the long run considering their track record in other applications.

Your citation of the SP 9010 project is hardly relevant considering the locomotive is not even a diesel-electric; it is a diesel hydraulic manufactured back in the 1960s from an obscure company (Krauss-Maffei) that has not manufactured locomotives in decades, as far as I can find. You're judging something that hasn't even left the drawing board yet as of this posting, while at the same time coming from an apparently limited knowledge standpoint while doing so, which I find to be quite amusing.
  by Backshophoss
 
Cat/EMD have a proven "body of work" in prime movers,and still does "real life" testing in the field
the last known Cat test units were built and tested on NS,last year EMD did some testing over Raton Pass with
SD-70ACE and GEVO-44 units with BNSF help.
Cat has made good,reliable HEP plants,most if not all Cummins HEP plants have been pulled out and now
rot in rust gardens behind the shop,most Cummins powered Gensets stay close to the yard or drag a GP-38
around in case of a "crap-out" in the industrial park 20 miles away.
Siemens will find out soon enough if Cummins can/can not deliver a reliable prime mover for RR use.
  by dowlingm
 
Backshophoss wrote:Siemens will find out soon enough if Cummins can/can not deliver a reliable prime mover for RR use.
These guys will find out even sooner - a repower of an SD90.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 52