SC-44 Siemens Charger Locomotives

Fan Railer wrote:

Nasadowsk wrote:I'm guessing that 50Hz is the inverter frequency @ 125mph. Interesting, but I guess not a huge surprise being a European unit (effectively).

I would disagree. AC voltages tend to be higher than DC voltages. From what I gather elsewhere, IGBT traction inverter voltages tend to be in the range of 2400V. I would guess the 1080 volt rating @ 50hZ is the rectifier rating. The 50hZ rating itself would be from the main alternator.

50 cycles is just the frequency of the AC wave that comes off the device. The difference between 50 and 60 is minimal but its enough that the locomotive must be built to work on both or one or the other usually. ALP 46 and ACS-64 work on both. The DC link voltage is what is made by the converter system off the transformer. On an HHP-8 its 2750VDC same with the Acela HST. The AEM-7 HEP systems DC link is only 1,100VDC (No DC link for traction, since they are DC propulsion) The AEM-7 AC I believe runs a DC link at about 1,800VDC. All 5 inverter chains feed off this common DC link to provide 3 phase AC for traction and Aux power/HEP. Voltage of the AC components is all 480VAC.

With modern diesel locomotives instead of a transformer and a single phase converter they will have a 3 phase converter and a 3 phase alternator coupled to the crankshaft of the engine. The PL42AC and the P32/40/42/32ACDM all work this way. The 3 phases go to the converter and are then made in to a stable DC voltage On AC propulsion there is a DC link and inverter chains. The DC propulsion its divided up electrically and fed to the traction motors via excitation field and armature circuits.

The electrical makeup of the propulsion on the NJT PL42AC is exactly the same as the AEM-7 AC except with the difference noted in the above paragraph. Same computers, same power modules, same principals.

So, 135 tons makes 'em a little heavier than the Genesis actually, but still lighter than the 148 ton MPI behemoth MP36/MP40 locomotives. Hopefully high speed tracking will be at least as good as with the current GE locomotives.

frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.

David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.

A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.

Actually a GE will run at 1047 rpm max in non HEP mode or on P32acdm's in run 8 a GE providing HEP (other than P32acdm) will run a steady 900 RPM.
that is reason a P42 will only deliver 3750 hp in HEP mode and 4200 hp in non-HEP mode.
the P32acm is a different beast as HEP does not feed directly of Generator but of a inverter, so engine speed is not a requirement for frequency.

the F40ph ran at 900 rpm in HEP mode (and 600 rpm in HEP non traction yard power mode), engine speed only varied with throttle settings if engine was NOT delivering HEP.

ApproachMedium wrote:

David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.

A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.

that must come from an inverter then .

David Benton wrote:

ApproachMedium wrote:

David Benton wrote:frequency off a generator would be the rpm of the ergine times the number of pairs of poles in the alternator divided by 60.
a common speed in small generators is 3000 rpm for 50 hz, 3300rpm for 60 hz.actually it may be 3300 and3600 , brains a bit fuzzy at the moment.

A locomotive engine spins at various speeds from 200RPM up to 900RPM for EMD 2 stroke and 1,200 for GE 4 strokes. The little MPI GP15s at amtrak spin up to 1,800RPM. They all make 3 phase 60 cycle 480VAC.

that must come from an inverter then .

Yea if there is an AC alternator, there is a converter. Converters make AC to DC. DC to AC is an inverter. The old F40s had to keep high RPMs to keep the frequency for the way the HEP 3 phase worked, but for traction its done differently. The same principals now apply with newer locos like the GP15, PL42AC, P32ACDM and the MPI MPXpress series. The engine can vary RPM while feeding a single 3 phase alternator that runs to a converter which keeps a DC link charged.

Do we know anything about whether or not these will be any quieter than the GE Genesis or the EMD F59PHI? They certainly look sleek, and given how much easier the transition has been on the NEC to ACS versus the HHP-8 and the Acela, I'm pretty optimistic about the Chargers. They certainly should be better than the EMD's Amtrak has been using on the California and Cascades routes.

RocketJet wrote:Do we know anything about whether or not these will be any quieter than the GE Genesis or the EMD F59PHI? They certainly look sleek, and given how much easier the transition has been on the NEC to ACS versus the HHP-8 and the Acela, I'm pretty optimistic about the Chargers. They certainly should be better than the EMD's Amtrak has been using on the California and Cascades routes.

I don't think so yet. The first QSK95 testbed loco (SD90MAC CECX 1919) hasn't been fired up yet. Last I heard, it's still undergoing electrical wiring work. We'll have a better idea of how the Charger locomotives will sound after they spin up 1919 for the first time later this year.

Ultimately though, I don't think the volume reduction is going to be very substantial (if there is any reduction at all). The ALP-45DPs (fitted with CAT high speed diesels) certainly roar away while in diesel mode, although it's a different type of loud than a traditional medium speed prime mover powered locomotive like the Genesis or PL42AC.

Any idea when we might start seeing some actual hardware from either this or the bilevel order?

Matt Johnson wrote:Any idea when we might start seeing some actual hardware from either this or the bilevel order?

I think it's safe to say that the Charger order is queued up behind the Sprinter order; so after the Sprinter order is complete. I estimate we'll see the first prototypes roll off the production line somewhere around mid-2016 (+/- a few months). The bilevel order is for another thread.

Fan Railer wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:Any idea when we might start seeing some actual hardware from either this or the bilevel order?

I think it's safe to say that the Charger order is queued up behind the Sprinter order; so after the Sprinter order is complete. I estimate we'll see the first prototypes roll off the production line somewhere around mid-2016 (+/- a few months). The bilevel order is for another thread.

Don't forget that Siemens is also building Charger locomotives for All Aboard Florida. AAF is publicly aiming for start of revenue service for the Miami to West Palm Beach segment by the end of 2016. In order to make the September, 2017 deadline for spending the stimulus funding portion, which is the hard deadline, I think Siemens will have to have the first units delivered for testing to the states by no later than early 2016.

Fan Railer wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:Any idea when we might start seeing some actual hardware from either this or the bilevel order?

I think it's safe to say that the Charger order is queued up behind the Sprinter order; so after the Sprinter order is complete. I estimate we'll see the first prototypes roll off the production line somewhere around mid-2016 (+/- a few months). The bilevel order is for another thread.

Are they been made in the same factory?

The ACS-64's were built at Sacramento Ca,if the "Charger" is to be built(the prime mover is still a R+D project)
it will be at the same factory.

Thanks,for some reason I thought they were going to be built in the Chicago area.