Save the F40PH

jnugent56 wrote: Just this year I've had my hands on injectors, belts, hoses, fuel cut-off cables, headlamps, primer, paint, gaskets, window glass, etc... and this is for a little 45 tonner!

Hey! Hey, hey Joe!! Get back to work! Stop wasting time posting here and get that 45-tonner fired up!!

Please don't use the word "fire" (or any of its variations) in conjunction with diesel locomotives, especially old ones with "crispy" wiring....that's VERY bad Karma, you know.

Otto Vondrak wrote:Hey! Hey, hey Joe!! Get back to work! Stop wasting time posting here and get that 45-tonner fired up!!

You got it, Otto!

Here is a video of the first start up of the number 1 engine after its rebuild. It was a cold day and our Kim Starts were not yet operational, so it took a little while to get her started. (Approximately at the 1:50 mark.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... pr=goog-sl

Enjoy.

Sorry to drag this a little off topic... however I guess it does go along with my original post. I suppose it relates to the work that goes into keeping these things running.

I am currently working on convenience the Berkshire Scenic railroad to host the F40PH I have also chose to focus my attention on F40PH #271. My temporary web page for this project is http://ham549.googlepages.com/home I have also started a Face book group (called Save the F40PH) to try to do some networking.

Ham549 wrote:I am currently working on convenience the Berkshire Scenic railroad to host the F40PH I have also chose to focus my attention on F40PH #271. My temporary web page for this project is http://ham549.googlepages.com/home I have also started a Face book group (called Save the F40PH) to try to do some networking.

Hmm. One of the Ohio Central units, I see - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 418&nseq=1

Here's a thread dealing with Ohio Central's Alcos, but it also applies to these units.
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... =4&t=54347

And for everyone else, here's a bit more info about their units for sale.
http://www.ohiocentral.com/locomotives.htm

I still think you're a bit daft, but best of luck to you

I guess I'm a little confused... maybe you already answered this somewhere, but I see 5 "preserved" F40PH's listed on your website. (Not to mention the 60+ units that you list without a designation of scrapped, modified, etc...) What are you trying to save? I would understand saving a unit of historical significance, but honestly, there are a ton of these locomotives out there... and some of them aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I ask with all due respect... I'm just curious. When I think of locomotives to save, I think of something more along the lines of an EMD Model 40... only 11 produced. Don't even get me started with the steam stuff.

F40PH #271 and all of the other Ohio Central F40's are now owned by Rail World and that can't be good. Remember the American 4-4-0 was also common heck even more common than the F40PH is now yet today there are only a small number left.

Ham549 wrote:Remember the American 4-4-0 was also common heck even more common than the F40PH is now yet today there are only a small number left.

Unfortunately, we can't save 'em all. I guess my point was that there are already a number of F40PH's that are being preserved. How many of these units would you like to be saved?

That's my final question. Good luck with your endeavors.

Ham549 wrote:F40PH #271 and all of the other Ohio Central F40's are now owned by Rail World and that can't be good. Remember the American 4-4-0 was also common heck even more common than the F40PH is now yet today there are only a small number left.

Here's the deal. You asked. We told. Before you start trying to start yet ANOTHER project, think about ALL of the stuff that's in railroad museums ALREADY that will NEVER get restored. Individuals do not restore equipment. Capable groups of volunteers (and sometimes paid contractors) do. And when they do, they have a groundswell of support behind them.

"Good Luck"

-otto-

The F40PH's I'm looking at don't need to be restored and as part of a museum roster would get the same treatment all the other locomotives get.

think about ALL of the stuff that's in railroad museums ALREADY that will NEVER get restored.

We are pretty up to date at the SFTM, the caboose is looking great (and it is mostly one guy working on it) and the 0-4-0 is starting to receive some work. I am also reinstalling some of the trimmings in #10.

Ham549 wrote:The F40PH's I'm looking at don't need to be restored and as part of a museum roster would get the same treatment all the other locomotives get.

think about ALL of the stuff that's in railroad museums ALREADY that will NEVER get restored.

We are pretty up to date at the SFTM, the caboose is looking great (and it is mostly one guy working on it) and the 0-4-0 is starting to receive some work. I am also reinstalling some of the trimmings in #10.

Congrats - your museum is doing well right now. It won't be forever. People move, start families, get different jobs, die, or just lose interest. Museums catch fire, flood, get storm damage. Equipment malfunctions - hoo boy, does it ever - and you can't ever figure out the problem, or worse, it costs $50,000 to fix. Before you even think about adding new equipment or exhibits, make sure your museum has the wherewithal to take it on.

The F40PH is not rare - we can't tell you that enough. MBTA, Metra and VIA still run them, CSX has them on their executive train, there's at least 5 preserved by your own admission - what else do you want? Tell the guys trying to restore a Baldwin, Lima-Hamilton or Fairbanks-Morse, or the ones frantically trying to save a wooden interurban body from the bulldozer, that an F40PH needs restoration before their projects. You'll get the coldest looks you can imagine, if they don't literally beat you up.

You say the 271 won't need restoration. Theoretically, no. But if you want a locomotive and not a mobile smokehouse, you'll need to invest huge amounts of time and effort into restoring it - Amtrak rarely sells a locomotive with much life left in it. I see the Berkshire Scenic has some GE, EMD and Alco locomotives. You should get involved in maintaining them before even considering asking for something larger and many times more complex.

jnugent56 wrote:When I think of locomotives to save, I think of something more along the lines of an EMD Model 40... only 11 produced. Don't even get me started with the steam stuff.

There is a Model 40 saved

http://www.lacity.org/RAP/grifmet/tt/ht ... harley.htm

mtuandrew wrote:The F40PH is not rare - we can't tell you that enough. MBTA, Metra and VIA still run them, CSX has them on their executive train, there's at least 5 preserved by your own admission - what else do you want?

While the fans tend to flock to the "uncommon" - i.e. the previously mentioned Model 40, the BL-2, the C-415, etc., do these really tell a story? Or do the workhorse engines like GP9s, SW- whatevers, Also S-1/S-2/S-4, F- whatevers?

Under the philosophy of "save the rarest before the common", we'd have, maybe, 5 or 10 restored DC-3 aircraft in this country - TOTAL. Maybe only a handful of F-14s. And both types of aircraft are still in use to this day (the F-14s having just been retired by the U.S. but still in use in Iran.)

It's important to restore both the uncommon (just as the Spruce Goose still exists, albeit unflyable) and the common (there is a GP38 in a museum, as are a number of GP9s and SD45s). So what if there are five F40s preserved, why not another one? If someone has the will and the means to do so, I don't think that the rarity of a specimen (or lack thereof) should be the determining factor of whether something is worth preserving.

That said...basically every other thing said on this thread was EXCELLENT advice. A number of museums are deciding what parts of their collection fit their museum's goals and guidelines and are disposing of everything else. If your sole goal is to preserve a F40, what are you going to do with it? F40s by themselves really don't tell much of a story (even Chris Fussell's F40 doesn't do a whole lot, and the SDP40F that he's involved with has been on lease to a shortline railroad. The F40, however, is not suitable for shortline use.) Do you have a plan to acquire a fleet of Amtrak cars to go behind the locomotive? Or are you just going to run the engine back and forth as a locomotive (why not just buy a switcher? Uses less fuel, is smaller and easier to maintain, and is more at home in a yard than a F40 is.)

wigwagfan wrote:There is a Model 40 saved

Oh yeah, I know... in fact, I believe there are still a few around. I mentioned it because it falls into the rare locomotive category.

wigwagfan wrote:Under the philosophy of "save the rarest before the common", we'd have, maybe, 5 or 10 restored DC-3 aircraft in this country - TOTAL. Maybe only a handful of F-14s. And both types of aircraft are still in use to this day (the F-14s having just been retired by the U.S. but still in use in Iran.)

Here is the problem as I see it: Many museums, such as the one I volunteer for, have a hard enough time trying to preserve the rarest of locomotives. Using our museum as an example, the addition of a F40PH to our fleet would take valuable volunteer time away from our rare pieces, such as our Alco RS3-M Hammerhead or our Fairbanks Morse H12-44. (Both are operable, by the way.) Once those units are gone, they are gone... meaning, it would be difficult to replace them.

It would be different if we needed a modern locomotive with HEP, but we don't at this point in time. I think that may be where "Ham" is having a problem. Instead of trying to justify the addition of a F40PH to one of his museums, perhaps Ham should find a place that actually needs a unit like this. Just a thought.

The way I see it the F40PH wouldn't be used that often, and when it is it would be used to pull our specials where we are pulling all of our 7 cars. It also has the advantage of being MU'd and has H.E.P. (our cars haven't all had there H.E.P. systems restored but I would be happy to work on getting them up again). The disadvantage is you can't really use them in reverse like a switcher. So we would need to work something out (I have several options lined up for this delima).