Salamanca Question

In the western part of Salamanca there is evidence of a railroad spur that connected the Pennsy tracks with the Erie, with a river crossing somewhere around Grove and Front Aves. If you look at an aerial photo of the PRR tracks there is a distinct wye configuration roughly south of the high school.

The spur continued northeast crossing Broad, Hancock and Front Aves before crossing the river. Continuing on east it must have connected with the Erie in the area of the lumber company.

From family history I have evidence that this spur was long gone by the 1930s. From numerous visits to the area I've concluded that Grove Place was built on the old roadbed.

Has anyone ever come across information on this spur, who owned it and so on? I seem to recall dome discussion about it in the past but it may have been lost along the way.

Joe, you're right we did discuss this previously, however a quick search of the forum didn't come up with what I'm looking for.

IIRC, the PRR line wasn't torn up until the late 1950's when the Warren (PA)-Salamanca line was torn up owing to construction of the Kinzua Dam. An old (1946) Official Guide of the Railways that I have shows that the line ran from Olean to Oil City. Stations on the line are listed as:

MP Town

0 Olean
3 Allegany
9.2 Vandalia
19.3 Salamanca
25.2 Red House
31.2 Quaker Bridge
36.4 Onoville
39.1 Corydon
47.7 Kinzua
59.2 Struthers
60.4 Warren
66.2 Irvineton (locally known as "Irvine")
80.9 Tidioute
89.5 West Hickory
95.8 Tionesta
98.6 Hunter
104.1 Eagle Rock
116.3 Oil City

Try checking Pietrak's history on the Western New York & Pennsylvania for more information.

It was more than just a spur,i IIRC. PRR from Warren used Erie from Salamanca to Olean (Allegheny) at one time so it was the PRR lline. And yes, it was removed entirely upon building of the dam.

I remember seeing a light engine move on the PRR branch through Salamanca in the very early 1960s. This branch ran along the south side of the Allegheny river from Allegany to at least the PA border.

The spur I'm talking about was gone long before the branch was abandoned and removed. I never knew about the wye until I saw it on a Windows Live Local (or whatever it is) aerial photo.

Perhaps the PRR did use Erie between Salamanca and Olean but that must have been circa 1900.

Thanks for the replies.

I think the spur is on this old topo map:

http://docs.unh.edu/NY/slma00sw.jpg

The wye is very easy to see using Live Search!!

I doubt this link will work:

link

Yep, that's the one on the map. It dead-ends right at the river, and I think at one time it crossed because there were the remains of bridge pilings in the river there.

Just before the end of track, the spur crosses a creek. Right at that spot is where my father grew up, in the 1930s. He always mentioned the "hill" behind his house,and never mentioned any tracks or bridges.

I have a road map book circa 1915 which shows a complete PRR through Salamanca to Olean on the southside of the river to below Carrolton, crossing the Erie and B&O at Riverside Jct. However I cannot tell what roads were junctioned at that point 3 railroads and a trolley line). Later they had trackage rights on the Erie between the two cities. But I don't know if the rights began east of Salamanca...the junction...or somewhere west or within Salamanca. The PRR line connected with the PRR Buffalo-Emporium (Erie-Williamsport-Harrisburg jct) line at Olean. We do know when the dam was built they abandoned the whole line from Warren. The Erie and B&O had an interchange track between to two yards and stations.

There were also the fun shenanigans that the Pennsy pulled to get something of value for losing their line; they ran about everything they could over the line prior to it closing to demonstrate its value, and then complained how much of a loss it would be. I believe they got free locomotives out of it, whether U25's or Geeps, I don't remember.

I've seen some anecdotal evidence around Warren that the line between Warren and the dam (or at least closer to it than exists now) lasted a while longer. I believe it was car storage for the refinery, basically, and even today, what was the mainline is now a storage track that ends just shy of the Glade bridge in Warren. There's almost always a tank car at the bumper.

Dave Becker

This info comes from two PRR CT1000 books(11-1-23 and 5-1-45)

91.2 Red House(Freight Station)
91.3 (HU Passing Siding)
91.4 (Public Delivery Track)
93.4 Shongo(Freight Station) no siding
95.8 West Salamanca(Storage track)
(Kendall Refining Company)
(Freight Station)
(Public Delivery Track)
(J.H. Capwell)
(Willard G. Metzler)
96.8 Salamanca(Passing Siding)
97.1 (Storage Track)
(Freight Station)
97.2 (Salamanca Cement Block Company)
(Standard Oil Company Number 24)
(Henry H. Neff Milling Company)
102.5 Carrollton(CW Passing Siding)
102.8 (Bath Lumber Company)
102.9 (Freight Station) no siding
104.7 Riverside Junction(RJ Tower) no siding
(Freight Station) siding
104.8 (Jct. PRR Bradford Branch, BR&PRY) siding

Maybe some of this info will help people understand what was on the south side of the river through the reservation.

This info comes from two PRR CT1000 books(11-1-23 and 5-1-45)

91.2 Red House(Freight Station)
91.3 (HU Passing Siding)
91.4 (Public Delivery Track)
93.4 Shongo(Freight Station) no siding
95.8 West Salamanca(Storage track)
(Kendall Refining Company)
(Freight Station)
(Public Delivery Track)
(J.H. Capwell)
(Willard G. Metzler)
96.8 Salamanca(Passing Siding)
97.1 (Storage Track)
(Freight Station)
97.2 (Salamanca Cement Block Company)
(Standard Oil Company Number 24)
(Henry H. Neff Milling Company)
102.5 Carrollton(CW Passing Siding)
102.8 (Bath Lumber Company)
102.9 (Freight Station) no siding
104.7 Riverside Junction(RJ Tower) no siding
(Freight Station) siding
104.8 (Jct. PRR Bradford Branch, BR&PRY) siding

Maybe some of this info will help people understand what was on the south side of the river through the reservation.

HMMMM....your information, erie2937, indicates a junction and interchange at Riverside Jct. with BR&P (B&O) but does not indicate a crossing at grade. It also indicates the PRR had a line south from this point toward Bradford, PA. Neither a junction nor crossing with the Erie's branch south is indicated. Very interesting. Must find a topo map of the era now.

PRR crossed Erie and BR&P at Riverside Junction but did not interchange with the Erie at that location. The interchange was with the BR&P/B&O. The PRR used the BR&P/B&O to reach Bradford from Riverside Junction. The connecting track to the BR&P/B&O was east of the two crossings. The Erie was to the west of the BR&P/B&O.

According to the topo Chris linked to above, the PRR and Erie interchanged just north of Riverside Jct. in South Carrolton.

Charles

erie2937 wrote:PRR crossed Erie and BR&P at Riverside Junction but did not interchange with the Erie at that location. The interchange was with the BR&P/B&O. The PRR used the BR&P/B&O to reach Bradford from Riverside Junction. The connecting track to the BR&P/B&O was east of the two crossings. The Erie was to the west of the BR&P/B&O.

That makes sense. My maps are highway maps so don't show anything more than the convergence of rail lines. And although it does delinieate one railroad from another, it doesn't show PRR south of the NY/PA boarder south of Riverside Jct.

Now the question is, when did the PRR gave up its own line east of Salamanca in favor of trackage rights on the Erie and where was the connection made?