Railroad Forums 

  • Salamanca Question

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #512683  by jr
 
Redwards said:
I was always curious how far west the yards extended.
I spent a fair amount of time in Olean as well. The remains of the PRR Allegany Yard were still around in the early/mid 70's. I believe that the West end of this yard was very near (or basically underneath) the Rte 417 underpass at St. Bonaventure. I was down there once or twice with my Dad. (This was the older bridge, not the one that's there now). It was also prior to the construction of the Conrail yard in 1980.

Redwards also said:
I think part of a roundhouse exists on the property as well?
That is correct. Approx 6-8 stalls of the roundhouse still stand inside the Dresser complex. The backshop building was used for heavy repairs, and they could lift some of the largest of the PRR locomotives with that crane. My late Father was once invited to watch them place the boiler back on the wheels of an M-1 (4-8-2) in that shop.

JR

 #512800  by MichaelWinicki
 
I spent a fair amount of time in Olean as well. The remains of the PRR Allegany Yard were still around in the early/mid 70's. I believe that the West end of this yard was very near (or basically underneath) the Rte 417 underpass at St. Bonaventure. I was down there once or twice with my Dad. (This was the older bridge, not the one that's there now). It was also prior to the construction of the Conrail yard in 1980.

I don't remember much of the western end of the yard. I never had a chance to go down there "exploring" when I was young, but I'll tell you what always did fascinate me...

My grandparents lived in Allegany and we mostly went there on Rt. 417... past the Castle Restaurant on one side, and St. Bonaventure on the other.

I was always intrigued by the short section of tracks that paralleled Rt. 417, on the right hand side, for a brief time right before you went over the bridge.

It was considerably later in life that I learned that was the remnants of the "St. Bonaventure Railroad."

 #512807  by Redwards
 
MichaelWinicki wrote:Yeah, Reed that was the former storage building used by the Service Store folks.

At one point that building actually had another story but I'm not sure if it was due to fire or whatnot, but it ended up a single-story building.

Actually, I feel pretty lucky in that I was able to watch a PC switcher (like a SW1500) haul a gondola full of scap down that line in the early 70's.
Thanks for the information on the old Utter Pipe building. Those scrap trains with the SW1500, single gondola, and caboose fascinated/terrified me. Spent a lot of time in the field between South 14th and South 16th street and had no idea that the Service Stores warehouse was used for anything else or that it was once two stories! I did find the remains of some ties half buried in the soil there. When I was home a few years ago I remember looking out our back window and being saddened to find it gone.

I have hazy memories of looking at the railroad while driving over the old Buffalo Street and Rt. 417 bridges prior to the "new yard" construction. I think it was pretty easy to see the abandoned roadbed of the oil city line from the Bonas bridge - a cinder ballasted path stretching to the east? The whole area seemed like it had been graded for railroad use.

Any idea when the remnants of the St. Bonaventure railroad got pulled up?

--Reed
 #512824  by jr
 
Redwards wrote: Any idea when the remnants of the St. Bonaventure railroad got pulled up?

--Reed
According to the Kilmer book, the railroad was sold to the scrapper in April of 1947. His book has pictures of the scrapping, but does not have the exact date.

JR
 #512828  by Redwards
 
jr wrote:The backshop building was used for heavy repairs, and they could lift some of the largest of the PRR locomotives with that crane. My late Father was once invited to watch them place the boiler back on the wheels of an M-1 (4-8-2) in that shop.JR
Thanks JR. That must have been something to see. An older gentleman on my paper route was retired from the Pennsy shops. Whenever I came around to collect he would tell me that he was going to dig around in his attic to give me all these manuals he still had. Unfortunately it never happened.

A few months ago there was a 1920's era PRR map of Olean up for sale on Ebay. The seller had scanned a couple quadrants of the map as part of the listing. I saved the two jpegs from the listing but don't think I can post. One of the scans shows West Olean and there is definitely a maze of tracks over in my old neighborhood. It looks like the Empire Tanning company had a small yard with 4 tracks stretching from 16th street to 18th street south of Henley St. There is definitely a spur next to W.H. Utter & Sons (wish I had been smart enough to associate that with the S. Stores warehouse) and also one running into the Niagara Lockport Ontario Co. (assuming this is the complex that I knew as Niagara Mohawk). The view cuts off at 21st Street but you can see two yards - a small local freight yard and a larger receiving yard to the West. The Northern boundry of the map is a Lincoln Street - no sign of the shops so it must predate their construction. Let me know if anybody is interested in seeing.

--Reed

 #512868  by Redwards
 
MichaelWinicki wrote:Yeah, I'd like to see that Reed.
I just sent over a PM.

--Reed

 #512896  by MichaelWinicki
 
Cool images Reed! Thank you!

I did have a chance to walk a lot of the eastern end of the old yard back in the late 70's before it was torn-up. It was figuratively a "car-wreck" with all the broken ties embedded in mud and the apparent lack of maintenance performed by either the PC or the Pennsy for many years.

 #513257  by JoeS
 
Interesting stuff, guys. But could we get back to the original question, please?

Map

 #513350  by jr
 
JoeS,

Here's a map that shows that spur ending at a grouping of buildings alongside the river. Map is from 1900; no evidence of a river crossing at that time, due to the way the buildings block the end of the spur. Since the track went in during the 1880-1882 timeframe, it would seem reasonable to assume that the track never did cross the river. I'm guessing it's a lumber operation of some sort.

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

JR

 #513829  by MichaelWinicki
 
Yeah, that map is certainly strong evidence that there wasn't a river crossing.

However, I think it's still a possibility that there was a crossing much earlier than the 1897, which by 1897 was no longer necessary.

Just consider...

1. Apparently the section from Warren to Salamanca was completed before the section from Olean to Salamanca. I'm sure it would have benefitted the Pennsy to connect with something in Salamanca, so why not connect with the Erie and detour trains over the Erie line from Olean to Salamanca until the new section was completed.

2. The spur (apparently) continuing in a straight-line, as an extension of the main, would support the notion that this spur was a continuation of the main at one point. If I had the time I'd go over to Salamanca and walk the grade to see if the spur really did continue in a straight line off of the main.

 #513976  by JoeS
 
Looking at the river bank on the north/east side of the river for evidence of an embankment would be proof positive. I won't be going down there until Memorial Day weekend but if nothing turns up in the mean time I'll do a little walk-around.

I have heard that there are sets of Sanborn maps at the Cattaraugus County historical society (I think) and these should also help fit the pieces together.
 #722683  by Aa3rt
 
Warning: Dormant topic being revived!

For those of you who may be interested in such things, I just finished reading a book titled Kinzua From Cornplanter to the Corps by William N. Hoover, copyright 2004.

A couple of points of interest as it relates to the final days of the railroad and the construction of the dam:

The passenger train that provided service to the dam dedication originated in Oil City and was made up of 2 locomotives and 18 passenger cars, carrying 1,400 passengers. This was on Oct. 22, 1960. Supposedly this was the first passenger train on the line in at least 30 years. I recall boarding this train with my parents and younger brother in Warren for the short ride to Big Bend where the dedication ceremony was held.

Regarding freight service on the line, the book has this to say on pages 147 & 148:

"Freight traffic on the Pennsylvania Railroad route from Warren to Olean via Kinzua officially ended August 1, 1962. This freight line had been in use twice a day. Pennsylvania Railroad received a $20,250,000 settlement from the US Government for these 28.5 miles of line. The Pennsylvania Railroad abandoned this line beginning one-half mile downstream from the dam site.

Regular freight traffic had been discontinued, but the railroad line was not to be deserted entirely at this time. Now its sole purpose was to provide construction materials for the dam. In March of 1963, Hunkin-Conkey Construction of Cleveland, Ohio, began laying rail for their railroad system within the dam construction area. The firm installed a mile of railroad track within the work area.

Construction materials such as sand, gravel and cement for Kinzua Dam were brought to the area by the Pennsylvania Railroad where Hunkin-Conkey had its own locomotive for switching purposes. This switching locomotive worked within the construction area of the dam. The Hunkin-Conkey locomotive brought cars loaded with construction materials off the Pennsylvania Railroad tracks nearby, onto company tracks for distribution in the work area.

During March of 1962, on the west bank of the Allegheny River, an aggregate unloading plant for railroad gondola cars was constructed in preparation for the production of concrete. Sand and gravel from rail cars were dumped into the pit, then conveyed through two large tubes to another conveyor system to a batching plant. The sand and gravel required were shipped to the dam site in special, larger than normal railroad cars. At the batching plant the concrete for the dam was mixed".

There are 2 photos of the passenger train, one showing the 2 RS locomotives in Warren and one of a couple of the passenger cars at the dedication site. There are also some photos of the dam site with railroad cars on the trestle above what was to become the dam and an ariel photo of the concrete mixing and cooling plant showing a number of railroad cars in a 3-track yard.
 #745292  by few72nova
 
The spur off the Pennsy tracks in Salamanca went across the Allegany river in Salamanca,New York near Grove Place and Front Avenue.The Salamanca Rail Museum has a drawing of the map with the bridge.This spur was used to take logs to the river or take them across to the Erie Railroad yard for transport in the 1880s.This same spur was used later for other things .If you drive to the end of Grove Place off Front Avenue( its a short dead end street)and walk back into the woods heading southwest you can see where the railroad bed near Grove Place was for that siding.There is a photo from the 1880s looking south across the Allegany River where Grove place is and you can see where the siding was but no bridge is in the picture.The roadbed is on the same angle heading toward the Pennsy line looking south.I dont believe the bridge across the river lasted long.The hills where stripped of trees back then and sent down the river and many sawmills lined the riverbanks here in Salamanca and locally.There was a huge sawmill near where this siding was from the pennsy tracks and I believe it was owned by Fitts Lumber Company.This sawmill was near Front Ave and Sycamore near where the yellow church is today .The Pennsy Tracks ran on the south side through Salamanca,New York and followed the south side of the Allegany River to the junction and turned south heading to Bradford .This location is where the present Route 17- I-86 is today.When the I 86 was constucted we lost most of the old railroad bed from Salamanca heading East.From I-86 you can still see the old railroad bed where it turned and headed south along the river.Fred
 #805107  by thebigham
 
There is a huge fire at a furniture factory in Salamanca.

I think this is near the Salamanca rail museum.

They said the fire spread to some trees along the Allegheny River in Salamanca which means the WNY&P mainline may be affected.
Last edited by thebigham on Sat May 08, 2010 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.