• S2 206 in its final resting place

  • Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.

Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike

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  by Steamtown Observer
 
Dude, what's with all the conspiracy theories? Around the same time a bunch of the RS1s were cut up. Two of the three final RS1s were cut up and both were a lot more intact and functional than 206 was. This all happened 20+ years ago and a lot of the people involved are now deceased. A lot of other stuff was going on and lots of stuff was either lost (like the RS1s) or survived by dumb luck like the 206.

So if you got your wish and restored the 206 then what are you going to do? The NYS&W won't let it run and with friction bearings you can't move it anywhere except by truck. And then to where? At this point you would need to buy a second S2 and swap out all the needed parts to get 206 running.

Will someone please kindly post one of those "beating a dead horse" icons?
  by airman00
 
Steamtown Observer wrote:Dude, what's with all the conspiracy theories? Around the same time a bunch of the RS1s were cut up. Two of the three final RS1s were cut up and both were a lot more intact and functional than 206 was. This all happened 20+ years ago and a lot of the people involved are now deceased. A lot of other stuff was going on and lots of stuff was either lost (like the RS1s) or survived by dumb luck like the 206.

So if you got your wish and restored the 206 then what are you going to do? The NYS&W won't let it run and with friction bearings you can't move it anywhere except by truck. And then to where? At this point you would need to buy a second S2 and swap out all the needed parts to get 206 running.

Will someone please kindly post one of those "beating a dead horse" icons?
It's not a conspiracy theory at all. The thing is this... when I discovered the #206 I was curious about the history of that engine, and how it got to where it is now, and why it no longer runs, what's wrong with it. So when I did research on #206 the story didn't add up. (Such as everyone seemed to think she "died" in 1985/1986, and she was running up until 1989) And so because the numbers didn't add up so to speak, I asked around to see if anyone knew the real story of #206 and surprisingly for a "fan-friendly" engine... finding information on what happened to #206 was hard to come by. Nobody could really pinpoint exactly what did her in.

The more reasearch I did, I found that more questions arose and... simply put... I just wanted to know the true story of #206 because it seemed to me like she was wrongly retired and that there was a chance she could be salvaged. (to operational status that is) Now it appears, that the #206 may indeed be more far gone than I thought.

On a related note... it seems like the NYSW was in a hurry to get rid of any remaining alcos as some were scrapped while still in good shape and running? And I thought back then that anything running was put into service as the railroad was power starved?
  by dano23
 
To my knowledge the 206 wasn't operable up until 1989 and sat dead in the yard at Binghamton from around 87-89 minus a short stint up in Cortland as a dispaly for a Maple Fest. In the late 80's all of the alcos wound up on the Northern Divison and by around 88 the 206, all the 100 series RS2/3's, wrecked 3002 and 3004 (think the 3008 was there too for a bit) and the RS1's 238 and 252 were all sitting at the yard in Binghamton. Even though the 206 was used as trade to GE for the B40's, I believe it never left Binghamton at all.

As for the power crunch, by 88-89 when all the B40's were on line, most of the Alcos were all sidelined as well as a string of SD45's that were stored on the old Crown Cork and Seal siding in Ridgefield Park.
  by airman00
 
dano23 wrote:To my knowledge the 206 wasn't operable up until 1989 and sat dead in the yard at Binghamton from around 87-89 minus a short stint up in Cortland as a dispaly for a Maple Fest. In the late 80's all of the alcos wound up on the Northern Divison and by around 88 the 206, all the 100 series RS2/3's, wrecked 3002 and 3004 (think the 3008 was there too for a bit) and the RS1's 238 and 252 were all sitting at the yard in Binghamton. Even though the 206 was used as trade to GE for the B40's, I believe it never left Binghamton at all.

As for the power crunch, by 88-89 when all the B40's were on line, most of the Alcos were all sidelined as well as a string of SD45's that were stored on the old Crown Cork and Seal siding in Ridgefield Park.
I know she was running in 1989. I also found a picture of her in 1987 running up in binghamton. In 1988 there is a picture of her in binghamton with her stack capped and from my research it appeared she was stored serviceable.
  by dano23
 
Steve F45 wrote:where was the crown cork and seal siding in ridgefield park?
Just west of the Bergen Turnpike crossing. The siding used to be where the new access road for Crystal Clear was built to bypass to Mt Vernon Street.
  by chief
 
I have been watching this post for a while and here are some facts.
I was the fire chief when the 206 had it's fire in Lackawaxen in 1989. when we arrived the road crew had pulled the 206 away from the train. they then dropped the 206 at scenic drive crossing and pulled the road power uo toward th old firehouse. The journel box was on fire and had spread to the cable to the traction motor.The fire was put out with very little damage. The next day we inspected the 206 with NYS&W people
and found that thejournal had to be fixed and the traction motor cable was rewraped.2 days later the old girl was started and moved half way down the siding past the old tower.She was started about 1 week later but not by the RR. She was hauled around lackawaxen and up the branch
by the stone train for about 2 more weeks. one saturday afternoon the Lackawaxen Turn dropped off about 15 cars at BQ picked up a string of emptys and the 206 and went west. My point is that this was a running loco when it left BQ.I do have photos at BQ but i have no idea how to post here.
  by airman00
 
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who questions what happened to the #206. :)

Since she was running when she left Pennslyvania how she supposedly ended up in a scrap yard is... well how? Someone mentioned friction bearing trucks as the reason. Well before she had the fire, she was being used and ran around the system and no problem with the friction trucks then. Also no problem with the friction trucks when she was rebuilt in the early to mid eighties. All of the sudden she has one minor problem and quick lets just scrap her all together.

Did the NYSW have a thing against Alco's? It seemed to me they were in a rush to scrap all the remaining alcos regardless of whether they ran or not.
  by chief
 
It's called a Board of Directors. More to follow Airman as soon as i find more out. Will talk to you at your e-mail
Steve a k a Chief
  by lvrr325
 
In 1989 it was an old, worthless piece of worn out junk that graduated from being relaible, useful power to one of the toys for the excursion trains. Which is more or less what it is today, of all the locomotives still out there, 539 powered Alcos are the least valuable. Not because they're necessarily bad, but because they're old (newest ones are 60 years old) and most run friction bearings. Even in 1989 it was near impossible to interchange stuff with those bearings on them.


Now at that same time Walter was working his CSX connections to try to get control of the D&H and running it for the bankruptcy court, so it was in their best interest to dispose of the oldest motive power, even if it was just serving as excursion toys, so goodbye S2s and RS1s. That they could help as trade-in credits on the B40-8s was a bonus, it may be what kept the first four on the railroad when the remaining units went to CSX. CSX is also who put a nix to them buying C636s a few years earlier for the stack trains, so they may even have had some input to the matter.
  by kingfish
 
airman00 wrote:It's nice to know I'm not the only one who questions what happened to the #206. :)

Since she was running when she left Pennslyvania how she supposedly ended up in a scrap yard is... well how? Someone mentioned friction bearing trucks as the reason. Well before she had the fire, she was being used and ran around the system and no problem with the friction trucks then. Also no problem with the friction trucks when she was rebuilt in the early to mid eighties. All of the sudden she has one minor problem and quick lets just scrap her all together.

Did the NYSW have a thing against Alco's? It seemed to me they were in a rush to scrap all the remaining alcos regardless of whether they ran or not.
Talk ith the NYSW mechanical supervisor in NJ and he can tell you most of the story. He helped paint and maintain 206 along with the rest of the active shop personnel before the "Pittsburgh" employee invasion in 1986.
Friction bearing j boxes became an issue when the AAR outlawed interchanging of that equipment. Hence NJT trackage became an impossible hurdle.

206 was not rebuilt in the early 1980s at LF shops. It was cleaned up, slightly freshened and painted at that time. I remember the FRA went beserk when 206 was sent to Edgewater to switch without window glazing.

As far as ALCOS go we got a new VP mechanical in 1987 and he wanted to clean out the relics and replace the units with newer power.

The SD45s were bought in 1985 under Frank Larkin and the B40s in 1988 under David Powell. God bless both of them for moving the equipment forward in time not backwards.

Cheers,

Kingfish
  by dano23
 
I'm interested too about the 206 on the LASB as 89 was when DO ended operations up there.

I still can't verify when the 206 was put back into service after 86. I've been able to follow it up to 1987 where on 9/26 it was at the Hoboken Festival along with the 116. All references I see all seem to agree with the fact that it had been out of service since 1986 with a bad main generator and had not run since when arriving at Hoboken. I remember the unit being there, but being 12 I don't remember any big details about it.
  by airman00
 
dano23 wrote:I'm interested too about the 206 on the LASB as 89 was when DO ended operations up there.

I still can't verify when the 206 was put back into service after 86. I've been able to follow it up to 1987 where on 9/26 it was at the Hoboken Festival along with the 116. All references I see all seem to agree with the fact that it had been out of service since 1986 with a bad main generator and had not run since when arriving at Hoboken. I remember the unit being there, but being 12 I don't remember any big details about it.
I found a photo of the #206, running in january of 1987. (It's on railroad picture archives, sorry I don't know how to link photo's from there) And she was running in December of 1985 as well. So if she was OOS in 1986 it wasn't for long as she was running again in 1987. As I understand it, she was running AFTER her fire in 1989, so if sometime in the past she had a bad generator than it got fixed.
  by Sid Farkus
 
airman, sometimes photo dates aren't always accurate. Sure, it could of been in '87, but you can't prove it for sure.
  by airman00
 
Susquehaniewikiwokiwani wrote:airman, sometimes photo dates aren't always accurate. Sure, it could of been in '87, but you can't prove it for sure.
I e-mailed the guy whose photo it was and he told me. He would know he took the picture. And the same goes for the '85 photo I saw as well. I e-mailed that guy as well. And we already know #206 was running in 1989.
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