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  • Running Low on Used GPs (in decent shape)?

  • General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment
General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

 #346114  by Noel Weaver
 
I have to agree with the previous, I have also worked a good number of
industrial and yard tracks that absolutely would not support any six motor
unit regardless.
I think there will always be a use and a somewhat demand as well for
four motor units. If the frames are still good, there is not really a good
reason to cut up a GP-7, GP-9 or other decent four axle unit and even
some GE four axle units are OK too. Trucks are important too but the
frame is most important.
Incidentally, there are some locations on CSX where six axle units are
not allowed to operate.
Noel Weaver

 #346275  by kevikens
 
In reading this thread I started to wonder. Does no one still build switchers like the SW or MP series of a few years back ? I still see some of these used by Conrail Shared Assets in the Philly area and Amtrak seems to have a fairly light and new looking locomotive that vaguely resembles a switcher for work train use.

 #346323  by chuchubob
 
kevikens wrote:In reading this thread I started to wonder. Does no one still build switchers like the SW or MP series of a few years back ? I still see some of these used by Conrail Shared Assets in the Philly area and Amtrak seems to have a fairly light and new looking locomotive that vaguely resembles a switcher for work train use.
A couple examples of switchers that Kevin mentioned:
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=332752
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=248841

Bob

 #346357  by Sir Ray
 
kevikens wrote:In reading this thread I started to wonder. Does no one still build switchers like the SW or MP series of a few years back ? I still see some of these used by Conrail Shared Assets in the Philly area and Amtrak seems to have a fairly light and new looking locomotive that vaguely resembles a switcher for work train use.
Well, that goes right back to the original purpose of this thread - I was complaining that while new switchers/4 axle units are being (re-)built, the manufacturers are invariably reusing 4 axle frames (and 2 axle trucks) and putting new hoods/engines/cabs/controls/fuel tanks etc. on them - witness the Green Goat (heck, apparently even EMD's handful of BL20s were built on GP9 frames). No one seems to be fabricating new 4 axle frames (and 2 axle trucks) for any of these new switcher units, at least not in the US-Canada.
And so I suspect a crisis will eventually occur, as 50 year old GP9 frames can only be re-used so many times (and this will reality will eventually encompass GP35s, GP38s, GP60s, B-40s, and so on). Hmm, I wonder what new 4 axle models are available for sale from Eastern Europe (they make stuff cheaply like China, but usually more durable).

 #346359  by MEC407
 
It was mentioned in another thread that the latest round of triple-engine switchers being acquired by UP are on newly-manufactured frames, rather than recycled frames. I think the particular units in question are being built by NRE. They ride on Blomberg trucks; not sure if those are new or recycled.

In regards to the question of whether or not "traditional" switchers are still being built: yes, they are:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32382

That particular one was built on a recycled, modified GP9 frame and recycled Blomberg trucks, but everything else is new.

 #346476  by Jtgshu
 
Its too bad EMD won't build (or at least I doubt they would) a basic, not too many bells/whistles GP38-3 or -4 or whatever. A new from the ground up loco, with a standard cab, stardard AAR control stand, but more modern engine management system, etc. It would be the same shape/design as a GP38, but instead have a non-turbocharged 710 in there, that would put out probably close to 2700 HP or so (are there any non turbo'ed 710's? if so, how much HP do they put out?)

There would be very minimial design costs, they already have the plans from the GP38. Its a timeless design, that crews like, and railroads seem to be desiring if they keep rebuilding their GP units and either de-turboing '40's or rebuilding straight 38's from their own road or others that were once forlorn for the scrap heap.

I think it would be a tremendous success, as it would be an all new unit, with several rebuild cycles ahead of it. The BL20 wasn't a big hit IMO, because it still used "recycled" parts, which would not last as long as new - there are more chances of a failure with a part that is rebuilt than new - a crack in the frame/case/block that wasn't detected, etc. but an all new loco with more power, and being more fuel efficent wiht modern systems would make it more desirable.

I think the gen sets are not going to be the miracle worker that some people/groups/railroads/builders are hoping they will be. If you had a Chrysler 300 SRT with the 6.1L HEMI, dragracing against 300 with 3 4 cylinder 2.0L engines, shoehorned in there, which do you think is gonna win? The 4's can put out the HP, and probably much more HP, but the 6.1 puts out much more torque, which is what gets the car moving then the HP takes over. Its sort of the same with a gen set - 3 small diesel engines compared to one large diesel. Maintence wise, 3 times the things to go wrong, even if they can be swapped out easily, the little engines will be running harder to put out the HP, than the V16 would be, even in Notch 8. And anyone who works on the RR will know, the RR's aren't good at maintence, and instead of fixing OOS gen set engines, they will start to take running ones out of other units, until there is a stack of engine skids sitting there. And then they will be rewired to only work with 2 engines, or 1 engine, because "if it rolls, use it"

 #346495  by Sir Ray
 
I fear the problem always comes right back to cost; GM did have a bare-bones locomotive in the 1980s called the GP15-1 (new frame, but it may have used trucks and other componentst from trade-in locomotives) - didn't really sell very well at all, since they couldn't justify the cost with so many GP9ss, GP35s, GP38s, etc. around at the time. Also, not sure how well a 710 would handle tier II emission standards for new locomotives.
Right now the big Class I's seem obsessively fixated only on large power for intermodal and coal, and apparently the hell with the rest. Class IIs and Short lines are now getting along with the existing pool of 4-axles, because they really can't afford brand-new locomotives.
At some point the remanufacturers (which seem to come and go) will come up with yet another super switcher design - but this one will click with the Smaller roads, and when the remanfacturer goes to buy some more used GP frames to meet the demand, the loco resellers will say "Sorry guys, there's no more 4 axles frames lying around in good shape at a decent price" (this may be sooner than they think), in which case panic will set in and somebody's gonna have get off their butts and start fabricating 4 axle frames and 2 axle trucks (or import them from Eastern Europe or Mexico...)