Running Electrics With Both Pantographs Up

In one video that was taken during an ice storm, I saw that most NJT and Amtrak trains on the NEC were running with both pantographs up on the locomotive. What is the reason this is done sometimes?

Due to Ice hanging from wire a single pantograph would bounce and arc damaging the wire.
Using the front pantograph as ice scraper now leaves clean wire for second pantograph to pull power.

DutchRailnut wrote:Due to Ice hanging from wire a single pantograph would bounce and arc damaging the wire.
Using the front pantograph as ice scraper now leaves clean wire for second pantograph to pull power.

Thanks for the reason. I know they do it but didn't know the reason why.

Dutch, they isolate the lead pan in that situation, correct?

Tadman wrote:Dutch, they isolate the lead pan in that situation, correct?

Yes sir, when the engine is at the head end of the equipment.

Then there is the polar opposite, a drop pan order for hot days when the wire sags & the panto can push it around too much in certain spots. Then intead f 2, you get none!

thanks, Srock. Is it possible to isolate a pan on an EMU? I've spent plenty of rush hours on crush-load EMU trains in a trailing cab and never noticed a switch or button to either isolate a pan or raise just one, it seems like you raise the east end pan in one car, you raise all of the easterly pans in the train and they're on line, too. (we have dual-pans out here, not a thing out east I guess).

Years back NJT converted 2 E60s to ice breaker service,dont ask me what the conversion was,only remember both coupled together both pans up no cars
in south amboy running south to matawan

Tadman wrote:Dutch, they isolate the lead pan in that situation, correct?

I don't know if you would need to. If the pans are electrically connected the first shouldn't strike an arc if it loses contact as the second pan will have much less resistance and the current will choose that path. Anyone who had been to a trolley museum knows you put the second pole up before dropping the first.

Most motormen have a piece called a "sleet pin". If there is ice on the catenary, they push the raise button in (allowing air to the raise cylinder) and hold it in place with the pin. Then you have the pans being pushed up to the wire by air at all times. If the sleet on the wire is really bad, they raise both pans. If you have one pan up, going at speed, the resulting arc from a pan dropping from the wire can trip the breakers in the substation, thus causing the whole section to lose power. This was explained to be by an old-time motorman running an MP-45 on the NYC - South Amboy run. He said it was the same on the GG-1s.

The pantograph is not raised by air, its raised and pressure maintained by springs, it unlatches with air and forced down with air.

Also both Pennsy and NJT employ Locomotive Engineers, motorman run in subways and trolleys.

DutchRailnut wrote:The pantograph is not raised by air, its raised and pressure maintained by springs, it unlatches with air and forced down with air.

Also both Pennsy and NJT employ Locomotive Engineers, motorman run in subways and trolleys.

Sorry. I rode with a Pennsy motorman for many years in the South Amboy local (Train #3615) and had many talks with him. As a long time employee of the Pennsy (this was before the PC merge) Russ explained to me the difference between a motorman and an engineer.

A motorman ran the electric engines or MUs.
An engineer ran the diesels and gas operated engines (they had a few, although he didn't specify where).
They were cross trained, however, so they could run either. Russ didn't like diesels, called them noisy pains in the a$$.

Yes, air unlatched and lowered the pans. However they could be held up by the same air cylinder that lowered them.
I realize that that would be a little known piece of information, but Russ was always good for such things.

If air raised and held the pantograph up, it would be impossible to liven up a train that lost the air.
Unlatching can be done with pantograph pole on dead train, but it would be impossible to keep pantograph against wire without burning the wire.

as for Engineer part, what do I know after being one for 30 years.

PennsyJohn is correct, the Penn designated Motormen for MU's/Electrics and Engineer's for everything else. As a matter of fact at one time Penn "Motormen" wore a white jacket and white hats with a black visor to indicate how much cleaner electrics were.

DutchRailnut wrote:If air raised and held the pantograph up, it would be impossible to liven up a train that lost the air.
Unlatching can be done with pantograph pole on dead train, but it would be impossible to keep pantograph against wire without burning the wire.

as for Engineer part, what do I know after being one for 30 years.

MILW electrics had air-raised pans. When the train had lost all air and had no power to recharge, a tiny pan-trolley (IE steel rod like a trolley pole with a rudimentary pantograph shoe) was raised to the wire just to gather enough juice to power a compressor and recharge the air. Once the air was recharged, the operating pan was raised to power up the entire locomotive.

You can see this at the far top left in the drawing linked below.

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