Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by Allan
 
There will be a shuttle train between Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park. I wonder if they will call it the H like they did back in 2012.

(Note: Nothing has been posted on the MTA site as of yet on this upcoming work).

https://www.amny.com/transit/a-train-sh ... structure/

"A trains won’t run to Rockaways for 5 months in 2025 due to infrastructure work

By Ben Brachfeld
Posted on November 3, 2024

A trains will not run to the Rockaway Peninsula in Queens for five months next year, leaving New Yorkers with some of the city’s longest commutes with a bumpy start to 2025.

The MTA says that from Jan. 17 to May 19, 2025, A trains will not run from Howard Beach-JFK Airport to either Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue or Rockaway Park-Beach 116th Street in either direction.

For most of that time, Rockaway Park Shuttle trains that typically run to Broad Channel will instead run within the peninsula between Rockaway Park in the west and Far Rockaway in the east, just as it did during the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy in 2012, when the cross-bay A train crossing had been significantly damaged.

On the first weekend of the closure, Rockaway Park Shuttle trains won’t run at all. Free shuttle buses will run nonstop or make local stops from Howard Beach to Far Rockaway and from Rockaway Park to Broad Channel and Howard Beach.

For the remaining 16 weekends, the Q91 shuttle bus will run nonstop between Howard Beach and Far Rockaway, while Q109 shuttle bus will make local stops between Howard Beach and Beach 67th Street, stopping at Broad Channel and Beach 90th Street where transfers can be made to the shuttle train.

Alternate travel means include local, select, and express buses, the Long Island Rail Road, and the NYC Ferry.

The painful shutdown is being pursued so the MTA can update the Rockaway Line’s underlying infrastructure, which carries some 10,000 passengers daily. The Rockaway Line sustained severe damage from Superstorm Sandy in 2012, forcing its closure for seven months; work is intended to make it more resilient to future storms that will become more frequent and intense due to climate change.

“Consistent with what has been done in the past for the L train Canarsie Tunnel project and G line modernization work, this next phase of the A train resiliency work has undergone internal and external expert review to weigh alternate delivery and construction methods,” said Mark Roche, the MTA’s deputy chief development officer of delivery. “It was determined that the plan presented is the best option for getting this work done as quickly as possible, with the least impact to commuters.”

The most critical component that requires fixing — the one necessitating the full closure — is the replacement of the structure and track on the Hammels Wye viaduct, which is where trains first enter the peninsula and continue either east to Far Rockaway or west to Rockaway Park. The MTA considers the Hammels Wye a “narrow chokepoint” that requires a full closure to get work done as quickly as possible and avoid closures at all during the busy summer beach season.

Meanwhile, work on the South Channel Bridge between Broad Channel and Rockaway— replacing the bridge’s mechanical and electrical systems that sometimes cause the drawbridge to get stuck and delay trains—will necessitate closing the passage to marine traffic for 10 weeks, coinciding with the train shutdown.

The MTA will be at a town hall meeting on Nov. 14, sponsored by local elected officials, at the YMCA on Rockaway Beach Boulevard in Arverne, where officials will discuss the impending outage. The MTA has also appointed a “czar” to oversee both the capital project and the alternate service provisions; Hugo Zamora will be at the helm, fresh off a stint doing the same work during the G train shutdown.

A train riders in Rockaway boast not only the longest average commutes of anyone across the five boroughs, they have some of the longest commutes of anyone in the country, State Comptroller Tom DiNapoli found in 2022. Part of that is due to the remote nature of the peninsula, which requires riders to travel through Brooklyn before getting to Manhattan, let alone the rest of their home borough.

But service on the A and shuttle train are also shaky on a good day. Advocates and local pols have long called for train service to be reactivated along the disused Rockaway Beach Branch of the LIRR, replaced with M train service all the way to Rockaway. Still, Mayor Eric Adams and the feds have largely rebuffed this, putting capital dollars into turning the right-of-way into a High Line-esque linear park.

Updated with statement from MTA"
  by STrRedWolf
 
You and me both on calling shuttle the "H". It's high time they got it going again.
  by frank754
 
OK, but it looks like the trains will still stop at Howard Beach, so that the people coming from JFK ca still take the AirTrain to there and the A to Manhattan. Just wanted to make sure that this will still function during that time. Let me know, as the article wasn't 100% clear to me.
  by Allan
 
frank754 wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 4:23 pm OK, but it looks like the trains will still stop at Howard Beach, so that the people coming from JFK ca still take the AirTrain to there and the A to Manhattan. Just wanted to make sure that this will still function during that time. Let me know, as the article wasn't 100% clear to me.
A trains from Manhattan will terminate at Howard Beach. Just past that station there are 2 layup/relay tracks so trains can be turned and sent back to Manhattan. The main tracks past Howard Beach will basically be cut off to any service because of the work that will be done.
  by eolesen
 
It's not quite clear -- is this a weekend shutdown only, or total shutdown?

Spent a bunch of time and money at Lenny's Pizza in Howard Beach.... it's been gone for seven years, but the clam bar is still there.
  by Allan
 
eolesen wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 8:03 pm It's not quite clear -- is this a weekend shutdown only, or total shutdown?

Spent a bunch of time and money at Lenny's Pizza in Howard Beach.... it's been gone for seven years, but the clam bar is still there.
Good point. Based on the wording of the article it appears to be weekend work only but amny has been known not to always get things totally correct. Best to wait for other articles and the official announcement from the MTA to be 100% sure. Either way things are going to be a mess out there .
  by MACTRAXX
 
Allan - Good point about the upcoming Rockaways track work -
Getting the information from the MTA directly is the best source...

With the mention of the former Rockaway Branch between Rego Park and Ozone Park -
the writer either is unaware or forgets that NIMBY opposition against any re-activation
of this route is the prime reason that the line sits abandoned...For those unaware a LIRR
direct link to JFK was proposed by the MTA back in the early 1970s as example...

One way for Rockaway riders is to use the LIRR from Far Rockaway...With the most recent
LIRR fare changes the "Far Rockaway Ticket" was introduced offering a $7 Peak and $5
Off-Peak one way fare to City Zone One ($13 Peak and $9.75 O/P - regular Zone 4 fares)
that is only available at Far Rockaway Station as a fare incentive...MACTRAXX
  by Allan
 
Here is the info from the official MTA page.

Based on the info there will be work done on the first weekend (1/17-1/20) BUT starting on Monday 1/20/2025 it appears that the diversion will be an everyday 24/7 project thru May 2025. (No mention about using the H bullet on the shuttle). [Note the bolding on the paragraph headings was added by me].

https://new.mta.info/article/service-ch ... uttle-2025

Service changes on the A line and Rockaway Park Shuttle in 2025
There will be major service changes while we rebuild the Rockaway Line to protect service from future storms. Here’s what you need to know.

New York City Transit
Updated November 1, 2024 9:00 a.m.

What we’re doing

From January 17, 2025 to May 2025, there will be major service changes on the ​ A line and Rockaway Park Shuttle:

​ A trains won’t run between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av or Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St.
S​ Rockaway Park Shuttle trains won’t run to/from Broad Channel.
Other service changes may also affect your trip. Check planned service changes or service status, or use the MTA app for more information. You can also sign up for email and text alerts.

Why we’re doing it
The Rockaway Line, which carries the ​ train and Rockaway Park Shuttle and serves as a vital link between the Rockaway Peninsula and the rest of New York City, suffered extensive damage after Superstorm Sandy. Emergency repairs restored service seven months after the storm. However, the viaducts and bridge that carry trains across Broad Channel need major upgrades to help protect the line from future storms and ensure reliable service for its over 9,000 daily riders.

Learn more about the Rockaway Line Resiliency and Rehabilitation project.
https://new.mta.info/project/rockaway-l ... bilitation

Weekend service changes, January 17-20, 2025
From Friday night to Monday morning, January 17-20, 2025:

A ​ trains won’t run between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av.
Rockaway Park Shuttle trains won’t run.
For service to/from affected stations, take free shuttle buses, which will run on three routes:
Nonstop between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av.
Between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av, making all ​ stops.
Between Howard Beach-JFK Airport, Broad Channel, and Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St, making all Rockaway Park Shuttle stops.
A trains will run between Inwood-207 St and Ozone Park-Lefferts Blvd or Howard Beach-JFK Airport.

Service changes starting January 20, 2025
From January 20, 2025 until May 2025:

​ A trains won’t run between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av or Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St.
S Rockaway Park Shuttle trains won’t run to/from Broad Channel.
For service between Howard Beach-JFK Airport, Broad Channel, and the Rockaway Peninsula, take free shuttle buses, which will run on two routes:
Q97, nonstop between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Far Rockaway-Mott Av.
Q109, between Howard Beach-JFK Airport and Beach 67 St, stopping at Broad Channel and Beach 90 St.
A​ trains will run between Inwood-207 St and Ozone Park-Lefferts Blvd or Howard Beach-JFK Airport.
Rockaway Park Shuttle trains will run between Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St and Far Rockaway-Mott Av.

New York City Transit
  by eolesen
 
I suspect a bunch of deadhead moves prior to the construction starting. You don't intentionally strand equipment when you know you're cutting the connection.
  by Kilgore Trout
 
IIRC, during the other Sandy-related shutdowns in 2012 and 2018, cars were moved to and from the peninsula via truck.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Kilgore Trout wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:10 am IIRC, during the other Sandy-related shutdowns in 2012 and 2018, cars were moved to and from the peninsula via truck.
Yep, they took the cars off their rail trucks, popped them on semi's, and hauled them all over to be re-railed and form the ol' H line. Won't be surprised if it happens again.
  by Allan
 
Granted that anything is possible but I don't think they will use semi's.

If you are aware of the track-bed south of Howard Beach, you know that it sits on man-made islands (including a portion leading to the Broad Channel station). These islands are not that far above the water level and neither are the viaducts leading to the bridges. During Sandy portions of these islands wound up under water for a time causing major damage.

This time we don't have the "exposure". My feeling is that the two line tracks south of Howard Beach will be used (either together or one at a time) for work-train movements in order to get supplies to the work area (and remove debris from that area). When they replace the major mechanical/electrical components on the South Channel Bridge, they will probably be using work trains to move those components (according to the first article that section will be closed to marine traffic meaning the bridge will be locked in the closed position).

Because of this, should the need arise to move revenue equipment from the peninsula to Howard Beach and beyond they will most likely will be able to use one of the two tracks.

The Rockaway Park yard has 7 tracks and can hold at most 7 full trains (8 car R46s or 10 car R179/211s) but they may keep one track for work trains). H trains (I don't know if the MTA will call the shuttle the H but I will instead of typing out Rockaway Park Shuttle every time) are probably going to be the R46s on hand and be used in 4 car shuttles so they should have plenty of equipment there. How often are they going to run them anyway? Maybe every 10-12 minutes during the rush, every 15 minutes during non-rush and every half hour during late night so how many trains are they really going to use?

Satellite view of the area - zoom in (a lot) and move the screen upward to follow the tracks

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Howar ... FQAw%3D%3D

If that link doesn't work , use Google/Google Earth. Just Google "Howard Beach subway station satellite view", then select the upper right picture and then move the screen as needed (you will have to zoom in to see the track area).
  by Allan
 
MACTRAXX posted this (in part) back on 11/5:

"One way for Rockaway riders is to use the LIRR from Far Rockaway...With the most recent
LIRR fare changes the "Far Rockaway Ticket" was introduced offering a $7 Peak and $5
Off-Peak one way fare to City Zone One ($13 Peak and $9.75 O/P - regular Zone 4 fares)
that is only available at Far Rockaway Station as a fare incentive..."


According to the latest news, Far Rockaway passengers will be able to ride the LIRR to/from the Far Rock station for $2.75 to Grand Central Madison, Penn Station and Atlantic Terminal. The 2nd article mentions they have to buy a two-way ticket to get the special price. The Rockaway shuttle itself will be free.

https://www.amny.com/news/lirr-far-rock ... in-queens/

2nd article - https://www.amny.com/transit/rockaway-r ... tdown-mta/ (this online version is longer than the print version.
  by west point
 
Many years ago rode the "A" train to Rockaway. The train reversed then went to far Rockaway then reversed again to become "A" train to Manhattan. No being a native could not understand the 4 block distance from the Far Rockaway stations of MTA & LIRR. Is there a rest of the story here??