Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:04 am There are no ticket vending machines inside the area controlled by the gates. You have to leave to buy a ticket, but you can't leave unless you already have one.

Perfect illustration of a Catch-22 scenario.

danib62 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:09 am That makes sense given that every arriving passenger should already have a ticket.

Whether or not you think there should be no passengers without a paid fare deboarding, the reality is that some certainly will exist. It wouldn't be too big a lift for the MBTA to place a fare vending machine inside the gate area.

I never said it was a good idea, or that it was being implemented well. I've heard from folks involved in the setup that argued a fare machine inside the fare zone was necessary for this reason, but higher ups apparently knew better.

danib62 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:09 am That makes sense given that every arriving passenger should already have a ticket.

Unless they boarded at a station that doesn't sell tickets, and the conductors never came around (usually due to crowding)

CRail wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:10 pm but higher ups apparently knew better.

Fire them all. Every last one of them. With prejudice.

Agree with B&A on this. Also, why not have ticket vending machines at the outlying stations? Similar to Metro North Commuter railroad and also Metrolink in the Los Angeles area.

atlantis wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:19 pm Agree with B&A on this. Also, why not have ticket vending machines at the outlying stations? Similar to Metro North Commuter railroad and also Metrolink in the Los Angeles area.

From a practical perspective, no real reason to have them at CR stations. Riders bought their tickets onboard from the conductors for the longest time and for one reason or another, no one complained about any of the negatives of that system. Since there was no interoperability between CR fare collection and subway/bus fare collection systems, why spend the $ on buying the machines and then keeping them in service if you can just have CR riders buy a charlie ticket at their destination?

From a logistics perspective, the machines needed power(obv) and also shelter from weather and temperature extremes. Most CR stations don't have one of those, and some have neither.

Outside of practicality, the relationship between the T and the manufacturer is pretty poor and has been for a long time. Even when there was a desire to do this, no one wanted to give them any more money. I'm sure the only reason that they agreed to sell the T new machines after the AFC 2.0 fiasco came to light was the T came to the manufacturer and said "name your price."

I have yet to make a trip to North Station since this has been implemented but I have wondered one thing. How does this work for T employees and Amtrak Employees? As a Amtrak employee, I can ride the CR and most Amtrak trains for free. All I have to do is show my badge, no ticket needed. Can the new machines read the barcode on my badge and let me in(or out)? Planing a trip to Portland via the Downeaster soon.

"" As an Amtrak employee ... ""

Can't you seek out a customer service agent (wearing a red jacket or shirt) and show your badge and s/he should let you in/out?

And for the non-employee boarding at a station without a fare venting machine way off somewhere, seek out a conductor to buy a ticket so you will have one to exit at your destination downtown.

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:28 pm I have yet to make a trip to North Station since this has been implemented but I have wondered one thing. How does this work for T employees and Amtrak Employees? As a Amtrak employee, I can ride the CR and most Amtrak trains for free. All I have to do is show my badge, no ticket needed. Can the new machines read the barcode on my badge and let me in(or out)? Planing a trip to Portland via the Downeaster soon.

I believe Amtrak and Keolis/MBTA employee IDs can be scanned to open the gates.

The thing is, seeking out a conductor can sometimes be more difficult than it seems, especially when the train is sro at your boarding station and trying to find the conductor when there are wall to wall people and the conductors are on the far end of the train. It used to be that the conductors would always manage to make their way to where you were on the train. Also, whatever happened to the various merchants and vendors who would be located adjacent to the stations and sell tickets? I know many people use the app but boarding public transportation should not be contingent on what kind of device you have. (Although with certain bus companies, having a smartphone is a must as drivers no longer sell tickets, even at unstaffed flag stops) in my humble opinion, the fare gates are just masturbatory theatrics to make people think that the MBTA is trying to run a better system without actually trying to run a better system. Although in all fairness, that reflects the general pro highway anti- public transportation bent in this country's transportation policy.

atlantis wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:56 am ...in my humble opinion, the fare gates are just masturbatory theatrics to make people think that the MBTA is trying to run a better system without actually trying to run a better system.

Nailed it.

Everyone - Something I have NOT seen is any pictures of the fare gate installations at North, South and Back Bay
Stations-and for that matter a number of how many turnstiles and how their lines are set up at each terminal...

Does the MBTA have personnel watching and assisting riders at each turnstile gate fareline?

As a comparison SEPTA Regional Rail has "Ambassadors" (their term) at their Center City Philadelphia stations
to assist passengers when necessary - at least one gate is manually operated for riders that have fare payment
types that are other than the Key Card or Quick Trip Ticket types accepted directly by the turnstiles...

There are also TVM machines titled "Fare Kiosks" in the paid area that are capable of selling Exit Quick Trip
tickets for a flat fee for riders that have no ticket or pass in their possession arriving at the CCP stations...

SEPTA Key Card riders "tap on" at their origination station - and are supposed to be checked/scanned by
a train crew member - than "tap out" at their destination...in CCP that means the turnstiles as example...
I assume that MBTA Monthly and Weekly Charlie Card-type Passes are basically the same method...

I will thank all in advance for any replies...MACTRAXX

I've suggested this before, since CR has no charlie card, implement charlie card II immediately for commuter rail with conductors carrying devices like they have on the New Haven Line instead of hand punches. Have tap-on rfid detectors at all coach vestibules. If you don't appear to have a Charlie2Card they take your photo and send it to the conductor. Have high-volume rfid gantries at busy stations for tap-in & tap out. Have gates that allow riders to bypass the gantries, but convert paper tickets into timed boarding passes.

For those wondering how the gates are set up at North Station, here's a photo I took on Friday:



The gates surround the entire waiting area.

On the one hand I can see the fare gates as a way to keep out troublemakers and the bums who accost other people waiting for the trains but they could do that with more security. The gates also seem like they would cause a bottleneck at rush hours and you would have to make sure that you held on to your flimsy paper ticket that you bought on the train to scan at the gate at North Station.