Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:13 am Article: "MBTA knows it has a Commuter Rail fare collection problem, how are they fixing it?"
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/mbt ... david-wade
This article has made me look at these gates in a better light, so Red Wing, you may have a point, though I still think that investing in fare gates on GLX would have been a better move, and lets not forget that there is still going to be piggybacking and people buying Zone 1A tickets for Zone 8 trips without ever getting caught by the conductor.

This is one of the cases of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good." Even if the T is only getting 20% of a full zone 8 fare if people do this, that's 20% they weren't getting before. Whenever they get around to implementing AFC 2.0 on commuter rail, hopefully, they can mostly close this loophole by requiring tap-out to avoid a zone 10 charge.

As for the conductors collecting fares...I take NJT for occasional work(corp office is in JC) and when I'm visiting family in NJ. Conductors are always very good at checking fares, and during rush hour the HBLR(which is PoP) has frequent inspections. Not saying that MBTA conductors are lazy, but their NJT counterparts are certainly doing their jobs.

mbrproductions wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:32 pm Of course they know what they are supposed to do, the problem is they aren't doing it anyways, which means that either their overseers/bosses aren't aware of this or don't care enough to do anything about it.

The Conductors have a variety of reasons for not collecting fares. Short staffed, equipment issues requiring attention to that(new door and trap policies), revenue equipment failures. I could go on. To say nothing is being done is short sighted. What you see, and what goes on are two different things.

Komarovsky wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:43 pm .I take NJT for occasional work(corp office is in JC) and when I'm visiting family in NJ. Conductors are always very good at checking fares, and during rush hour the HBLR(which is PoP) has frequent inspections. Not saying that MBTA conductors are lazy, but their NJT counterparts are certainly
doing their jobs.

Given how packed NEC trains are into NYP, those boarding SEC often end up taking the short ride through the
tunnel without tickets collected.

And wouldn’t you know it, SEC has faregates…

It's simple.

Lots of people use the mTicket app. People who pay with mTicket aren't activiating their tickets until they see a conductor, because if the conductor doesn't come by, they can save it for another trip.

With the faregates, they can't pass the faregates until they've activated their mTickets to have a QR code to scan. So, if the conductor never collects that ticket, it's still used up. Even if they have a paper ticket, they (theoretically) can't use it again at the gate even if the conductor never scanned/collected it.

I don't know if the gate requires a scan to exit, but that would cut down on inbound fare evasion as well.

At first, I thought the gates were dumb, but having seen other transit agencies that do the same (having fare gates at the major stations but not the outlying ones) I don't see a problem with it anymore. If SEPTA, NJT, GCRTA, and Sydney Trains can do it, why not the MBTA? (Sydney Trains is proof of payment too!)

Right now at north station, riders have to scan or swipe their tickets in order to exit the gates there. Otherwise they will have to buy another one from a staff stationed there or on the mTicket app. Says it on the fine print.

The fare gate keeps a database of paper tickets that have been used? That seems unlikely.

diburning wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:09 am Even if they have a paper ticket, they (theoretically) can't use it again at the gate even if the conductor never scanned/collected it.

Is there confirmation that the gates are reading paper tickets and voiding/using them up so they cant be used again?

And if not, all this does is push people back to paper tickets away from mobile tickets

diburning wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:09 am At first, I thought the gates were dumb, but having seen other transit agencies that do the same (having fare gates at the major stations but not the outlying ones) I don't see a problem with it anymore. If SEPTA, NJT, GCRTA, and Sydney Trains can do it, why not the MBTA? (Sydney Trains is proof of payment too!)

NJT has gates at just Secaucus, which is a transfer point. There are no gates at the major stations, nor do they have gates on their subway or light rail systems.

BandA wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:56 pm The fare gate keeps a database of paper tickets that have been used? That seems unlikely.

Yes, and paper round trip tickets will get you two taps. mTickets will also allow you to pass by one time.

The faregate would talk to the m-ticket system & update the status to activated.

The gates do communicate with the mTicket system to make sure it is valid and not a screen shot.

I went through North Station this morning and I have some thoughts:

- The gates are all bidirectional and are activated as such. During the morning or evening rush, it's not obvious to a first time visitor that there are gate lines scattered around the concourse, and it can be a bt intimidating trying to go against the flow of traffic.
- There are Keolis ambassadors helping people. There are not enough of them. Some of them are entirely unhelpful; one ambassador opened the gates for anyone asking a question and waved them through instead of answering their question
- Things get messy when passengers have children. The gates will not let them pass with the parent, and an ambassador is needed to let them in/out.
- There are only two trash cans for the entire concourse past the gates.
- There are no restrooms past the gates. There is no signage to tell passengers this. There's also no signage to let passengers know that they're not allowed to go out and back in without ambassador intervention.
- The gates accept Amtrak tickets, Charlie Card passes, tappable Charlie Ticket passes, and swipable magstripe Charlie Ticket passes. There's no signage to indicate that stored value Charlie Cards are not accepted. This is different from South Station where there's a validator that deducts value from a stored value Charlie Card and turns it into a zoned receipt that's presentable to a conductor.

I expect the exit restriction will be short lived for now. It makes sense with a proof of payment model to keep people somewhat honest, it doesn't make sense with the current system. You also need to add fare sales options INSIDE the fare control area in order to allow people who don't have proper media to leave.

As it stands, if there is not someone stationed to let you out, the gates are left open.

Are there “in out” privileges? Can you go in the gate area and come back out or is your ticket “punched” at that point

Yesterday (Thursday) at 5:15pm the gates were open for all. Heading to my CR train, I noticed an influx of yellow and black shirted pax -- must be a Bruins game so I'm guessing KCS didn't want to deal with the crowds dealing with the exit gates.