Return of Daily LD Service

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:14 pm I just flew Spirit to Florida and everything was packed. What is the issue with Amtrak? Inability to alleviate staffing shortfalls? I can only imagine the amount of business they're turning away as the fleet wastes away in storage.

Actually as far as Florida goes Amtrak is running with record levels of capacity on the Auto Train this year and performing very well. It's presently the only profitable route in the system and is a success story. This includes the NEC which right now is failing to break even on both services. There is certainly reduced capacity elsewhere in the system including on the corridor - but Amtrak is pretty much doing what it has always done in Florida.

Concur with Mr. Lord's immediate; a source for such is Feb '22 Monthly Performance Report.

That @ $1500 a pop to save 400 miles of driving, and no time whatever, hits my "obscenity button", means AT and me are history.

But more power to Amtrak if they can command those rates. Could I "better" that rate if I were travel on a slack date rather than when I want to travel or "compromise" with a Roomette instead of a Bedroom? Of course.

But I decide when I want to travel and a hotel room of the Fairfield, Express, or Hampton varietal, does not require use of community "facilities".

Finally, today I observed from a distance, #5(26). In addition to three P-42's (changing out the "protect" kept @ DEN), on the very head before the V-Bagg was a car liveried in PRR Tuscan Red. My guess such was the FRA Inspection Car, which is so liveried.

This is not meant to minimize the value of the NEC by any stretch - it remains where Amtrak has the biggest market share and is most competitive as a mode of travel. Obviously Covid is making them have to rethink the business model a bit on the NEC particularly with the Acela service. That may include things like discounting fares to drive to drive ridership - but which may make it harder to get into the black. Getting more frequencies going in the summer should help too. But if the NEC requires operating subsidies the next few years it does mean less extra money for capital which is why the IIJA is important.

wigwagfan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:32 am
When I suggest to anyone "Why not take the train" I get nothing but blank stares, and for those who actually have ridden Amtrak I get a mixture of complaints and "it was okay but it took forever" comments.

I looked into taking Amtrak but coach would've been in the same ballpark as economy airfare, and a roomette was well beyond my price range. My hope was that the new Viewliner fleet might help to bring down sleeper fares a little bit at least. Instead, at least half the Viewliners are sitting in storage and the one New York to Florida train that's still running is charging as much as ever, and without even offering true dining car service at that.

I think this is more of a marketing problem. People are thinking of LD service as "transportation to the vacation."

LD service, the "overnight" or "2-night" service, is more "THE vacation." It should be marketed as such.

You clearly don't have young children...

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This summer I would like to see if the Meteor could at least originate both ways on Fridays and Sundays. That of course if enough OBS and T&E are available. Keep the Super Star as is. Those days would give the ability for passengers to restore various connections in the NEC to other trains at least 2 days a week each way. Suspect Fridays and Sundays would be high travel days.

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:15 pm

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:14 pm I just flew Spirit to Florida and everything was packed. What is the issue with Amtrak? Inability to alleviate staffing shortfalls? I can only imagine the amount of business they're turning away as the fleet wastes away in storage.

Actually as far as Florida goes Amtrak is running with record levels of capacity on the Auto Train this year and performing very well. It's presently the only profitable route in the system and is a success story. This includes the NEC which right now is failing to break even on both services. There is certainly reduced capacity elsewhere in the system including on the corridor - but Amtrak is pretty much doing what it has always done in Florida.

You wouldn't know that the NEC isn't breaking even from riding on it. Every train I've taken in the last year, barring the 11:58 Keystone, has been absolutely filled to the brim.

eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:02 am You clearly don't have young children...

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Reminds me of a piece by Robert Benchley, from sometime in the 1930's. The first sentence reads "In America there are two classes of travel: first class, and with children." It's pretty funny, and may be around in a collection somewhere. It's accompanied by a Gluyas Williams line drawing showing the interior of a 1930's parlor car.

STrRedWolf wrote:LD service, the "overnight" or "2-night" service, is more "THE vacation." It should be marketed as such.

Except on the train, I can't stop at a nearby attraction for an hour or two, enjoy it, and carry on. That's why we're planning a two week road-trip this summer to hit up a number of National Parks.

Amtrak can get me TO (or somewhat near) a National Park, but then I still need a car for most of them, and I see far fewer parks, AND I'm subject to Amtrak's schedule (or lack thereof)... Simply put, the market for "Amtrak as the vacation" is a niche, and looking at the load factors for the various LD trains in the latest MPRs one that has plenty of room for growth even at one-a-day.

Before anyone brings up "but Amtrak takes you right to the gate of Glacier National Park!" - been there, done that, lived in Kalispell for several years. Ridden the Empire Builder many times. Doing something new this time.

wigwagfan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:32 amBefore anyone brings up "but Amtrak takes you right to the gate of Glacier National Park!" - been there, done that, lived in Kalispell for several years. Ridden the Empire Builder many times. Doing something new this time.

Correct. One park. And the path to get to that one park is very limited.

I don't know why anyone would take a train like the Zephyr to go to a national park anyways, for the above reasons. If Amtrak were to market those trips as "the vacation," it would only really apply to people whose destination with Amtrak is their turnaround point: ie, San Fran from Chicago.
LD Trains as they are really only appeal to those on opposing ends of the economic spectrum. Those who need very inexpensive travel and can't take the airplane for whatever reason book coach, and those with enough money (and time, but that is tangentially related to the whole money thing) to do so.
I've ridden the Pennsylvanian/Capitol Limited many times to get to/from Chicago/Philadelphia. Always in coach. The only reason I considered it part of the "vacation" was because I like trains.
This May, I'll be on the Lake Shore for the first time, in a room. Four years of back and forth between Philly and Chicago and this is the first time I've been able to even consider a room.

Yosemite has a very good Thruway bus service.
Amtrak could do alot more to attract tourists. Rocky mountaineer, and Canadian are well known here, few would know of Amtrak.

David Benton wrote:Yosemite has a very good Thruway bus service.
Amtrak could do alot more to attract tourists. Rocky mountaineer, and Canadian are well known here, few would know of Amtrak.

How would you market Amtrak to a family of four (and associated luggage for a week long trip) on a train to a bus to somewhere within a National Park, where transit options are inconsistent from park to park (and in some cases have not been running at all), or in the case of Glacier Park can be quite expensive (the Jammer/red buses), or offer only limited routes through the park?

Doing it by air is bad enough, even with rental cars readily available or airport shuttles that will take me directly from airport to hotel. Uber/Lyft can be difficult for a family as most cars are for a maximum of three passengers (and with COVID policies, two passengers - nobody up front).

I think for all the various reasons posted exploring the country by rail and by auto are both very valid ways of doing it... Obviously each has its advantages. Rail giving you the relaxing experience of simply watching the scenery go by on board without having to worry about driving but driving providing the advantage of more freedom in making short stops at various attractions - the equivalent on rail requiring overnight stops at least.. I don't think either option is better for everyone - the best option is the one that's best for you based on what you're looking for.