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  • Restoration of CNJ "Blue Comet" route to AC?

  • Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.
Discussion Related to the Reading Company 1833-1976 and it's predecessors Philadelphia and Reading Rail Road and then the Philadelphia and Reading Railway.

Moderator: Franklin Gowen

 #259667  by CarterB
 
capuzfu wrote:In today's Metro, the NYC edition, there is an article about NJT starting direct service to AC Fridays-Sundays. The article makes it expressly clear that the train will NOT stop in Philadelphia.

 #265370  by gravelyfan
 
Pacobell73 wrote:At this point, NJT will probably run a Nwk-Penn to Atlantic City train via the NEC through Philly. As much as I would love to see the CNJ Southern Secondary back in action, it won't happen for a long time. Shame, because it's a straight shot.
Interestingly, when I tried to calculate the mileage to get from PSNY to AC via the Blue Comet Route, I found that it was less than 5 miles shorter than going down the NEC to Shore Interlocking and "reversing" there for Atlantic City. Would saving 5 miles (or less) be worth rebuilding (almost from the ground up) the 60 or so miles of the Southern from Red Bank to Winslow Jct?

 #269218  by Steam man
 
gravelyfan wrote:
Interestingly, when I tried to calculate the mileage to get from PSNY to AC via the Blue Comet Route, I found that it was less than 5 miles shorter than going down the NEC to Shore Interlocking and "reversing" there for Atlantic City.


I don't doubt your measuring abilities, but somehow it don't seem possible there's only 5 miles difference. Could you supply some milage numbers you came up with on the major legs of both routes?

 #269961  by NY&LB
 
I have been researching the mileage question using old OAGs and have some partial results:

For the route via the CNJ:
NYP to Red Bank via NY&LB (PRR) 45.0 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Red Bank - AC via CNJ 96.9 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Total Milage: 141.9

PRR routing:
NYP to Frankfurt Jct: 82.7 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Frankfurt Jct - AC ????? can't find that one since PRSL trains used Camden and the Nellie Bly used yet another route. However, Camden - AC was 58 miles so the 5 mile difference is plausable. Fastest NY-AC on PRR was 2 hours 55 min. in 1941...that would be STEAM powered most of the way!

Someone must have the Frankfurt Jct - AC mileage, too bad NJT took the milage info out of thier public TTs!

 #269973  by JimBoylan
 
Somebody mentioned in a "News Group" during the last century that the Jersey Central route around Staten Island via Red Bank and then wandering through Tinton Falls is not very direct, and the speed limits are much less than down the 1990's NorthEast Corridor!
Last edited by JimBoylan on Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #270025  by NY&LB
 
I have found the other info to complete the mileage calculations!

For the "constructed" route I'll call CNJ:
NYP to Red Bank via NY&LB (PRR) 45.0 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Red Bank - AC via CNJ 96.9 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Total Mileage: 141.9

For the "constructed" route I'll call PRR:

NYP to Shore: 82.1 miles (PC ETT #5 May 1970) {Frankfort Jct is 81.2}
Shore to Division Post PRSL: 9 miles (PC ETT#5)
Division(District) Post to AC: 53 Miles (PRSL ETT #7-F, Oct 1962)
Total Mileage: 144.1 {and you coulds shave 1.9 miles off that using Frankfort Jct as the reference point!}

I also looked at service in 1941, PRR carded 4 name trains as follows:

lv NYP 9:05 am ar AC 11:50 am Sea Plane
lv NYP 12:15 pm ar AC 3:05 pm Sea Clipper
lv NYP 2:15 pm ar AC 5:00 pm Nellie Bly
lv NYP 5:20 pm ar AC 8:05 pm Flying Spray

In contrast, the CNJ only carded the Blue Comet as follows

lv Liberty Street 10:00 am ar AC 1:00 pm
 #270050  by baju
 
Someone mentioned in another forum that NJ transit officials were walking around the southern div. near Winslow. I personally know a official from NJ transit and from what they said and this article on rails to trails it seems we might just kiss any extension from Lakehurst to Winslow good bye. What a shame with the Camden and Amboy gone and now the southern( no foresight in this country among other things). It is true that there never was business along this line, however if exspanion and population growth continues at even less than current levels. I feel this line will become most important both for freight and passenger service. IE. The development of Cape May branch and other lines in souhtern NJ. Popualtion growth. To name just a few. I cant understand how it is cost effective to reroute freight all the way around through PA via the Lehigh Line to NY metropoitan area??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rails_to_trails_NJ I also heard "rumors" of converting the line from farmingdale to freehold to a bike path!!!!l

Momentum is increasing for support of the proposed Wharton Rail-trail in southern Jersey. The line was a remnant of the Conrail bailout of 1976 and has been out of service since that date. Since then, trees have grown up through the rails. Most bridges remain intact and the right-of-way and its access roads are being used by rogue ATV's, mountain bikers and hikers alike. The area eastward beyond the Batsto River is barren and uneventful, and absolutely impossible to ride. However, westward to County Route 536, there are several interesting trestles over tea-colored cedar water streams and hardwood groves amongst the solitude of pine trees. This latter route is mostly single track and double track in places west of U.S. Route 206 at Atsion. The New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT) will be studying the conversion of the line this fall. More Info: Wharton Trail Website (out

 #270480  by Steam man
 
NY&LB wrote:I have found the other info to complete the mileage calculations!

For the "constructed" route I'll call CNJ:

Total Mileage: 141.9

For the "constructed" route I'll call PRR:


Total Mileage: 144.1
I still somehow seems the PRR route would have been much longer,but the numbers don't lie. Thanks

 #270520  by NY&LB
 
Steam man: I agree, it seems to defy logic, that's why I took the time to research it!

 #293138  by Irish Chieftain
 
NY&LB wrote: For the "constructed" route I'll call CNJ:
NYP to Red Bank via NY&LB (PRR) 45.0 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Red Bank - AC via CNJ 96.9 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Total Mileage: 141.9

For the "constructed" route I'll call PRR:

NYP to Shore: 82.1 miles (PC ETT #5 May 1970) {Frankfort Jct is 81.2}
Shore to Division Post PRSL: 9 miles (PC ETT#5)
Division(District) Post to AC: 53 Miles (PRSL ETT #7-F, Oct 1962)
Total Mileage: 144.1 {and you coulds shave 1.9 miles off that using Frankfort Jct as the reference point!}
This looks a bit wrong. Driving a perfectly parallel route to the former Amtrak service to/from Atlantic City (NEC, Frankford Junction, entire PRSL) results in a length of about 160 miles (and the roads are straighter than the rails). Add the reverse move at Shore, and you could get a few extra miles tagged on.

The Nellie Bly ran via Bordentown, Burlington, Riverton et al, via what is now NJ Transit's "River Line" light rail.
the numbers don't lie
When it comes to the rails? Don't count on that.

 #293383  by JimBoylan
 
The mileposts to Frankford Jct. and Shore Tower may be measured from Exchange Place, N.J., or some other place than Penn Station, N.Y.

 #322856  by Mister Midtown
 
I just used Google Earth's "path" feature to measure the distance between Rahway and Winslow Junction: It was 91 miles either way. I used Frankford Junction as the reference point.

Seems like it would be a waste to rebuild the line just for Atlantic City service.

 #355013  by Irish Chieftain
 
How does it seem like a waste? Was it a waste when Amtrak rebuilt the PRSL for the same purpose, and canceled the service not too long afterwards? Is the existence of ACY (airport) also a waste?

There's no shortage of buses using the GSP to run express between NYC plus various towns in northern Jersey and Atlantic City, and I don't see why they should be allowed to have a virtual monopoly.

Operating via the NEC to Shore Interlocking and running the train backwards (in essence) via the PRSL is not viable as an express service (the Amtrak experience is evidence of that); a train running via a rebuilt Southern Division joining the PRSL at Winslow would be viable. Since the Southern Division is part of the MOM proposals, the train to Atlantic City would constitute running beyond Lakehurst to Winslow, so it wouldn't be as much of a "waste" as one may conceive (depending on the definition, which really is very ephemeral).

 #355476  by chuchubob
 
A prototype train was run on Jan 27 from MMC to AC and back using PL42AC 4031, Multilevel coach 7200, and Multilevel cab car 7000. It crossed over the NEC and changed direction at Shore.
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=636818
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=636819
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=636820
http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=636821