Restoration of a S2... Would you Guys be uo to it?!

Ok, im beat. I guess i can offer nothing more.
What you guys say is all true, i have never changed traction-motor brushes, nor have i actually done much real locomotive Maitence, it was just my enthusiasm putting forth before my mind could actually tell me it would be a failure.
But CAR_FLOATER is right. Even though the LV May be dead and Gone, if we do nothing to preserve something, there might not even be something there in the future! Yes, we have these tiny tid-bits, ie: switchstands, cross bucks a Tie date Nail, maybe a Train-Man's uniform, but whoopdie-doo. Most people who come to the museum just peer at the things then leave. They want to see a real running historical Locomotive that does something. How do you think you guys at Industry got all that business? Because you have something to show, and run.
I guess my opinion cant count as far as this.
As for my first few trips to Industry, i'll make a plan with my parents for this Weekend, if you guys are around. And, i'll see to it that none of their plans over-ride mine. I'll contribute as much as i can to 211. Atleast its something Lehigh...
I only say the things i do for restoration because i believe that in the pile of Ashes that conrail was given to re-kindle into a fire, there is one ember from the lehigh, still glowing. It carries a message. It says, Preserve Me. I may be dead, but do what you can to make my spirit live on.
Thats all i hvae to say for now.
Sean

Well said, Sean......

CF

Nice crowd here.

On the former 151...

First thing I'd do is see if Manchester or Victor wanted to display the thing. That Lehigh Valley Historical Society in Shortsville had plans for a display in Manchester at one time. Work with them. Are they charitable 501C3? Great, you have a donor organization. They run train trips. Train trips make money. Get them behind the project, bingo you got funds. You got LV boxcars in Manchester, sell them on an LV engine, LV boxcar, and eventually an LV caboose all on display.

And if they don't want it, the folks in New Woodstock (restored LV station with a NYC caboose stand-in) might, the CNY NRHS might be able to store it, folks in Elmira might be willing to display it (LV went there too), etc etc etc - lots of options out there. It could even go to .... Sayre -

As for the ex-LV 151 itself, it would have to move by flatcar or by truck. It has friction bearings and is many many dollars from FRA compliance to move on it's own wheels. Even on it's own wheels it's a dimensional move because of it's age and what it is. It's a small fortune away from operation (beyond economic repair), but there's no reason it couldn't get stuffed and mounted and made pretty - and BSOR could even still come rob mechanical parts out of it if need be.

You'd be looking at a good $10,000 to truck the thing there, maybe more with the cost of fuel so high. Silk Road would do it. You could probably talk to them and see if someone can spare the time to rough up an estimate. Isn't Winters Rigging out of Buffalo, am I wrong there? Maybe they'd be willing to help. It could get loaded on a flatcar and go NS Buffalo-Gang Mills-Geneva, and Finger Lakes might even donate the rest of the move. No reason it can't be unloaded right on the main track in Manchester somewhere.

That leaves actuially getting the engine from BSOR. Get organized, get your facts straight, and then give them a call. Figure out the scrap value of the engine and see if they're in a position to write off that kind of money from their taxes, or if they need to sell it. Tell them that they'd still be able to retrieve mechanical parts from it. Put the thing together like a school report and make a presentation out of it.


Or sit home and do nothing and let them cut it up. Even if you accomplish nothing, you learn as you go, so you know what you're doing the next time. If your key is static display, just getting it to a safe place is the biggest obstacle. Once there, you can paint the thing with housepaint and put Home Depot plexiglass in the windows if you have to make it not be ugly, yeah it's not done right but it's better than nothing.


R&GV confuses me as a museum, because they have nice facilities and have spent a ton of money up there, yet they have few to no events to raise money. Then guys come on here saying we can't raise any money to put batteries in our locomotive. They let themselves get scooped on the local train show by RIT. I don't think they have anyone to blame but themselves. I know a good deal of behind the scenes stuff with another upstate NY NRHS chapter, and if they had the engine and it needed batteries, the money wouldn't be a problem. Running it past the board, might be another story, there's a reason I'm not a member anymore. But this group has several events a year and makes money from all of them.

Sayre is the same deal. If they need money they need to do something to raise the money. $5000 is a good bit of money, but it ain't a fortune. Look at what the Catskill folks do on a bargain basement budget with volunteer staff.


But don't wait around, if the economy crashes you can forget about it, we'll all be up a creek without a paddle.


After reading this thread it's not hard to see why there is such a lack of young, enthusiastic people in the hobby.

WNYP431 wrote:As for the 211, it's too bad that no one was interested in leasing her last year like I had begged for - or even discussing it....she'd be in service today on her former home rails with all new batteries, at no cost to them.

Look, without getting off-topic here, I spoke to the mechanical guys at our museum. Even if 211 was available for lease, it would cost the lessor more than $100,000 to recondition her for everyday shortline service. It's literally a museum piece now. We'll look after her for many years to come, keeping her paint shiny and eventually getting her a fresh set of batteries. We'd all like to see 211 or any of our engines out on the high-iron (or even the low-iron), but it's just not practical at this point in time. If anyone comes forward with a printed proposal on letterhead, we'll take a look at it. I'm an R&GV member, I'm not speaking for any of the trustees or the board, but I'm fairly certain they will tell you the same thing.

No hard feelings towards WNYP431 or anyone else- it's not a personal issue at all.

-otto-

CAR_FLOATER wrote:Sean, DO NOT be discouraged by the words of WYNP431, BR&P, and Otto, but do try to distill the facts from the sarcasm that has been put forth....It isn't easy, and it isn't cheap to try to do something like what you propose. But if it wasn't for people like yourself, NOTHING would get saved. However, you do need to "pick your battles", or in this case, museum pieces, and choose wisely.

Amen. Indeed, pick your battles. And they shouldn't be battles! There are many MANY worthy projects all around that simply languish because they don't have a champion. Why start another project that has no support? I know a kid in Boston your age who is bringing one of the last Boeing LRV's to Seashore Trolley Museum. It was a project that needed a champion, and he's leading the way for fundraising. When you get older, and you have time to dedicate to research and restoration, come on over and get your hands dirty. We'll need people like you in the next few years to keep the preservation movement going!

-otto-

BR&P wrote:Sean, how about a deal? I'll refrain from being grumpy, Otto will back off, we'll all make nice - IF - you don't make any more posts about restoration projects until you have put in three full visits to the museum to work on 211 or whatever project they have for you. I guarantee that even that small amount of time will give you some eye-openers about reality. And since you are unable to get transportation or parental permission to work on 211, how would the 151 be any different?

Sean, any time you want to come and work at Industry, just contact us. We're down there working every weekend (and Tuesday afternoons, too). Because you're a minor, you'll need a parent with you to start, but we'd appreciate any time you can lend us... and it doesn't have to be just 211, either.

In the meantime... while you have great ideas, stop a minute to do the research first. There are many "projects" out there that never got off the ground becuase all someone had was an "idea."

-otto-

Lehighton_Man wrote:Ok, im beat. I guess i can offer nothing more. What you guys say is all true, i have never changed traction-motor brushes, nor have i actually done much real locomotive Maitence, it was just my enthusiasm putting forth before my mind could actually tell me it would be a failure.

No one's trying to "beat" you, but you have to face facts. You may not have the skills and experience now, but you could always learn. But learning takes time. And it never ends.

But CAR_FLOATER is right. Even though the LV May be dead and Gone, if we do nothing to preserve something, there might not even be something there in the future!

Yeah, and we have a long list of things we have yet to get to. Why are you trying to add more? And it's not just industry... it's Martisco and North Tonawanda, too. We want to save it all, but we need time, people, and money.

Yes, we have these tiny tid-bits, ie: switchstands, cross bucks a Tie date Nail, maybe a Train-Man's uniform, but whoopdie-doo. Most people who come to the museum just peer at the things then leave. They want to see a real running historical Locomotive that does something. How do you think you guys at Industry got all that business? Because you have something to show, and run.

Some museums have static displays, others only operate, we're lucky to have a little bit of both. Maintaining and operating full-size trains is not cheap. We have a well-managed museum that carefully watches our budget and makes sure we keep the museum open (and operating) for visitors every season. But not every museum is so fortunate to have operating equipment, or even a place to run!

I guess my opinion cant count as far as this. As for my first few trips to Industry, i'll make a plan with my parents for this Weekend, if you guys are around. And, i'll see to it that none of their plans over-ride mine. I'll contribute as much as i can to 211. Atleast its something Lehigh... I only say the things i do for restoration because i believe that in the pile of Ashes that conrail was given to re-kindle into a fire, there is one ember from the lehigh, still glowing. It carries a message. It says, Preserve Me. I may be dead, but do what you can to make my spirit live on. Thats all i hvae to say for now.
Sean

Sean, I appreciate the sentiments... but remember, there's a long walk from talking about restoration and preservation to actually getting your hands dirty. And remember... you have a whole lifetime ahead of you. You'll have many opportunities to volunteer when you have the time. When I was your age, I wanted to do a lot of things I didnt have the time, money, or skills for. Over the years, my situation changed, and I was able to do some of the things I wanted, others I still have to wait. Some things I may never get to do. But if railroading is in your blood, you'll find a way to be involved, and any group would be more than happy to have you as a volunteer.

-otto-

If someone wants this thread re-opened, PM me. But I think we're largely done here.


-otto-

Unlocked per request of a member.

-omv

One thing worth mentioning to the aspiring historian/preservationist - if you cannot get to a museum or aren't allowed to, try working on your car - simple tasks such as changing the plugs, changing the oil, take the wheels off and reinstall them. If you find yourself very frustrated with these tasks, working on a 1940's locomotive built by a company no longer in existence is going to be a thousand times harder. I enjoy working on cars in my spare time. I once restored a 1972 Volkswagen Beetle - stripped it down to nothing, welded new floorpans in, rebuilt the engine/trans after removing it, all new convertible top and upholstery... It was a rewarded but at times VERY frustrating task. It took two years, because I don't have 40 hours a week to dedicate to this. And you know what? What sounds to be a monumental task was the "shallow end of the water". The VW is the easiest car to restore with the most parts available.

To bring this full circle: I haven't restored a car in ten years. I enjoy things like this. But I don't have the time, and I don't want to start a project that will hang over my head and ruin one of my favorite hobbies for me. WNYP's examples of what can happen are very realistic, and you don't want to ruin your train hobby in a financial or legal ball of fire.

I really appreciate Sean's enthusiasm, he sounds like a real contributor. But it's best to help out with another project, especially a younger age. Learn the ropes, try to take the lead on a particular sub-project. As you do well with these projects, people will ask you to do bigger and more impressive projects. Bottom line, if you make a good contribution to any project, your family, friends, wife, or girlfriend will be quite proud to see you've contributed to any project of substance. It's the walk-before-you-run theory, and it works well. Good Luck!

I will upload more pics in a few days..
Scot

Thanks for the Information Tadman.
I already am a Car Nut. My father and I do alot of work on our own personal trucks, so i can say i have had expirence working on cars,
As for 151 there Scotty, i'll say she's seen better days..
When i get the chance, i'll see about contacting the 2 men from the BSOR.
See what i can do to scrape up what i can, hopefully.
Cheers.
Sean
(rather i be successful or not, im not keeping any fingers crossed.)

IMO, for a "display engine" 151 is in excellent shape.
paint has been good, no major rust, all major parts intact.
her internals are irrelevant.

In much better condition than the LV U-boat at RMDI, which hasnt seen new paint in 30 years, and is quickly rusting away.

Scot

Sean- I would discourage you from contacting the BSOR about the engine. They are going to ask you the same questions we just did- who's going to pay for it? where will it be stored? who will be responsible for it? how will it be moved off BSOR property? who will pay for that? These questions are not answered by hoping for a fundraiser and getting "someone" to work on it "somewhere." Have a proposal outlined first- a written proposal. Sit down and make a plan. What is your goal? What steps will it take to accomplish this? What are the costs? Don't know where to start? Ask us. But talking to the BSOR about that loco now is premature...

So? What's your PLAN?

-otto-the-harbinger-of-doom-

Otto, I wouldn't call yourself the harbinger of doom. A few people on this thread have stated some cold hard facts. The point that a plan is necessary before contacting the railroad is just reality. If the railroad helped everybody that called without a plan, each railroad would need 50 people just to answer foamer calls.

It's worth noting that in the 1950's, many class I's donated their worthless steam power to towns along the line for goodwill points among the local public. At that time, scrap steel was not worth nearly what it is worth now. Take a look at how many of those display pieces are in a state approaching "good display condition". Most are either rotting away if they still exist, or get a rustoleum coat every two years from a city park official hoping to keep graffiti to a minimum. Either way, the local NIMBY's do not emanate the "goodwill points" feelings that railroads hoped for. Even some important displays that have dedicated volunteers, like the GP9 at Horseshoe Curve, are not in the best of shape.