Remaining F40s

blockline4180 wrote:I know a lot of you are upset that NJT is retiring all their remaining F40's, but I don't really see the big deal in it as MTA has 8 of them operating out Hoboken, 4 of which are ex-NJT... They will most likely be around for awhile!! I guess you all like the NJT horns and paint schemes a lot better?????

I saw a F40 with the MTA paint scheme pushing 5 Comet V coaches on the Main Line today. Most of the locos I have seen operating on the Main Line have been older variants instead of the PL42ACs. Not even sure I have seen a PL42AC operating on the Main Line - anyone know if they do?

Yeah... all the time. Aside from the MTA stuff, most of the trains operate with ALP45's or PL42's with an occasional geep mixed in.

SecaucusJunction wrote:Yeah... all the time. Aside from the MTA stuff, most of the trains operate with ALP45's or PL42's with an occasional geep mixed in.

Guess it is a coincidence that I usually see the MTA locos. Pardon my ignorance, but I did not think ALP45's would be running on the Main, Bergen or Pascack Valley lines since they are not electrified at all (unless we're counting the home stretch into Hoboken).

Brick City wrote:

SecaucusJunction wrote:Yeah... all the time. Aside from the MTA stuff, most of the trains operate with ALP45's or PL42's with an occasional geep mixed in.

Guess it is a coincidence that I usually see the MTA locos. Pardon my ignorance, but I did not think ALP45's would be running on the Main, Bergen or Pascack Valley lines since they are not electrified at all (unless we're counting the home stretch into Hoboken).

The Alp45's are dual mode and can be used as either a diesel or electric engine. Since the aforementioned lines are not wired they are in diesel mode on those lines. And since the tunnel project the 45's were built for was scrapped they have to be used somewhere.

airman00 wrote:

Brick City wrote:

SecaucusJunction wrote:Yeah... all the time. Aside from the MTA stuff, most of the trains operate with ALP45's or PL42's with an occasional geep mixed in.

Guess it is a coincidence that I usually see the MTA locos. Pardon my ignorance, but I did not think ALP45's would be running on the Main, Bergen or Pascack Valley lines since they are not electrified at all (unless we're counting the home stretch into Hoboken).

The Alp45's are dual mode and can be used as either a diesel or electric engine. Since the aforementioned lines are not wired they are in diesel mode on those lines. And since the tunnel project the 45's were built for was scrapped they have to be used somewhere.

Right, I forgot they were ordered primarily for the now cancelled tunnel.

Joe. Which of the Geeps are going up for sale on Friday? All the ones in the Garwood track?

beanbag wrote:Joe. Which of the Geeps are going up for sale on Friday? All the ones in the Garwood track?

Unfortunately I don't have an answer. I would like to know myself.

My best guess, though, would be that ALL of the F40's and FH's will go in this round. Perhaps some or most of the CNJ's as well (we can assume the 4103 and 4104 are around to stay, but who knows about the rest).

ns3010 wrote:

beanbag wrote:Joe. Which of the Geeps are going up for sale on Friday? All the ones in the Garwood track?

Unfortunately I don't have an answer. I would like to know myself.

My best guess, though, would be that ALL of the F40's and FH's will go in this round. Perhaps some or most of the CNJ's as well (we can assume the 4103 and 4104 are around to stay, but who knows about the rest).

Well, I know for a fact that 4101, 4108, 4109, 4112 and possibly one other ex-CNJ unit can't be on the block as I just saw them in passenger service last week... Unless NJT just took them all out of service this past week!

ns3010 wrote:

beanbag wrote:Joe. Which of the Geeps are going up for sale on Friday? All the ones in the Garwood track?

Unfortunately I don't have an answer. I would like to know myself.

My best guess, though, would be that ALL of the F40's and FH's will go in this round. Perhaps some or most of the CNJ's as well (we can assume the 4103 and 4104 are around to stay, but who knows about the rest).

I can't imagine NJT would let go of the CNJs (4106 and 4111 notwithstanding). Theyd kneecap themselves in terms of the 45s and being able to perform their intended design purpose. If I wasn't suffering from a cold I would go have a look in Hoboken to see what's where.

Aren't there still two remaining F40's in service? (4120 & 4124) I saw one of them on the PVL recently. And while not an f40, 4139 on the aqua train still. So maybe those 3 units will survive this lastest round of cuts?

airman00 wrote:Aren't there still two remaining F40's in service? (4120 & 4124) I saw one of them on the PVL recently. And while not an f40, 4139 on the aqua train still. So maybe those 3 units will survive this lastest round of cuts?

The 4139 had some kind of a failure last week (I don't believe it was anything major, but it is believed that they will not fix it) and has not been running since then. 4124 has been on the Aquatrain since then.

Although the 4120 and 4124 are currently in service, I highly doubt they will be much longer. NJT already showed that they don't want to deal with a 4 unit fleet of P40's, so there's absolutely no reason to keep only 2 F40's while selling off the rest.

As for the CNJ's, we'll see. But I fear those will be gone as well.

My reasoning is this: if you add up the remaining F40's, CNJ's, and FH's (regardless of if they actually run or not), 13+13+10=36. There's 35 dual modes. That's essentially a 1:1 replacement, and you'll probably have more units available at any given time now because the MMBF for the 45's is likely higher than that of any of the 40's. Once all of the 45's are repaired, there is no need to hold on to anything in the 4100 series, aside from the 4145-4150 and the CNJ's that are rebuilt into work units.

ns3010 wrote:

airman00 wrote:Aren't there still two remaining F40's in service? (4120 & 4124) I saw one of them on the PVL recently. And while not an f40, 4139 on the aqua train still. So maybe those 3 units will survive this lastest round of cuts?

The 4139 had some kind of a failure last week (I don't believe it was anything major, but it is believed that they will not fix it) and has not been running since then. 4124 has been on the Aquatrain since then.

Although the 4120 and 4124 are currently in service, I highly doubt they will be much longer. NJT already showed that they don't want to deal with a 4 unit fleet of P40's, so there's absolutely no reason to keep only 2 F40's while selling off the rest.

As for the CNJ's, we'll see. But I fear those will be gone as well.

My reasoning is this: if you add up the remaining F40's, CNJ's, and FH's (regardless of if they actually run or not), 13+13+10=36. There's 35 dual modes. That's essentially a 1:1 replacement, and you'll probably have more units available at any given time now because the MMBF for the 45's is likely higher than that of any of the 40's. Once all of the 45's are repaired, there is no need to hold on to anything in the 4100 series, aside from the 4145-4150 and the CNJ's that are rebuilt into work units.

Heres the thing though. Doing that would kneecap any effective chance the 45s have of serving their dual mode purpose.

I don't believe that is the case. When the time comes true dual mode service (meaning RVL, NJCL to BH, and MD beyond Dover and MSU, whenever all that would actually happen), the service should be able to be provided using everything that isn't getting retired. If the schedules are planned efficiently and are actually carried out as planned, there will be enough equipment available. If they are able to keep all of this stuff OOS right now, that means they are not experiencing/expecting an equipment shortage any time soon.

Well I subscribe to the theory of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". And given the current climate of no money in the state of NJ, and since NJT is a state agency, I don't see how they can retire or place OOS, perfectly good running engines. After all I can't see how they have the budget to afford getting rid of stuff. A couple of RUNNING F40's should be a commodity not a liability.

ns3010 wrote:The 4139 had some kind of a failure last week (I don't believe it was anything major, but it is believed that they will not fix it) and has not been running since then. 4124 has been on the Aquatrain since then.Although the 4120 and 4124 are currently in service, I highly doubt they will be much longer. NJT already showed that they don't want to deal with a 4 unit fleet of P40's, so there's absolutely no reason to keep only 2 F40's while selling off the rest. As for the CNJ's, we'll see. But I fear those will be gone as well.

4124 on AquaTrack